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LittleRedSpirit

The Rwd 2Az-Fe Thread.

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Interesting to see what you think of those maxis. I bit the bullet and got some re003 for my e30 last week (as they about the only decent tyre that comes in 205 55 r15). Very impressed so far, but I hear they don't last very long. Luckily it's not a daily drive (and these days I don't drive anywhere....)

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Im keen to see as well, obviously not going to have the dry grip Im used to, but I need to be able to get from maryborough to Brisbanein all weather so I really need something that wont aquaplane in the wet.  Im going from 205/50 to 195/50.  This should also help with the aquaplaning.  This is the tyre.

Guy at the tyre shop was a big fan of this tyre.  I could have gotten a similar spec federal for a lot less but according to the reviews they are not as good in wet.

Edited by LittleRedSpirit

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Plenty of places for water to go on that tyre. Should be a nice compromise for what you need it for. I recently got the cheapest Nankangs I could get for my daily drive subau impreza. And its amazing how much grip "normal" tyres have these days. Especially in the wet. Admitedly the tyres I pulled off both the e30 and subaru were very old and completely buggered. So its an unfair  comparison I suppose:p

 

Edited by ke70dave

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Ive now been for a long highway mission to Brisbane and back for work.  The Maxxis tyre is actually very good.  The straight line grip is good, probably about as good as the non warmed up 595rsr.  It feels like it rolls really easily, it doesnt tram track, and the steering is more laid back and airy as opposed to fighting you a lot on rough roads, it just goes straight.  When turning you feel the lesser grip, a little more prone to understeer on harder steering inputs, responds better to being a bit more measured in the corners.  Havent had wet roads to drive on yet, but I will report in due time.  Wheel is easier to move in slow going, makes the quick rack lighter to handle.  Compared to the rsr tyre, these are quieter on the road too, could run the stereo about 25 percent quieter and still have adequate volume.  They are loud and chirpy when spinning, the rsr just quietly slipped.

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So I have been continuing to drive and work on this car.  Ive done a whole ot of commuting down to brisbane for work in it.  Its capable of over 600klms to a tank, which is great.  Bris to Maryborough return on 1 tank is nice. 

Ive made some great advances with the running of the car lately too.  Its always been quite fine to use, but just have always been chasing performance at the low tps openings, on and off throttle smoothness, typically in the zones where I guess the map sensor is compensating.  All this came to a head when I decided for spacial reasons (after rubbing through some uni filters on the bonnet and exploding 4 more at 170kph - photo attached) to put the shorter inlet back on, and to test the performance of it now that Im running more consistent fuel pressure.

I was worried the voltage drop I was having in the past gave me a poor idea of how that setup perfomed.  Well I discovered that the shorter inlet is indeed less powerful, and it actually really caused some problems with tuning in the map sensor areas too, as the car started surging at cruise rpm and tps and the idle went to shit and it started idling high, idle creeping, and hunting.  I tried a number of things.

I checked the plugs, and I actually found an odd one in there with a different electrode height and a higher heat range.  I suspected that might have been causing some uneven performance accross the cylinders so I chucked those plugs and put some new NGKs in at 1.05mm gap, just about 0.05 under the stock gap.  Well this made it only marginally better, and I was still at a loss.  The first touch of the throttle was becoming kinda snappy, like hesitation then over enrichment, like the transient throttle enrich was coming in late.  It was beating on the diff.  I was looking at the maps and logs and adjusting things incrementally trying to smooth it out, and not getting anywhere.

I noticed there was a big fuelling change occuring between rich and lean in the first few percent of tps opening, when the map sensor was correcting.  I noiticed that the map sensor values were switching up and down by 20kpa at low tps.  I was baffled.  I got onto Adaptronic tech suppoirt for ideas, because I didnt want to keep making adjustments to a tune that was pretty good otherwise.  They said to test the map sensor with a vacuum pump, and to try running without map prediction on, and see if the uneven fuelling clears up.  That was a good tip, because the transient enrichment seemed to be the thing coming in uuneven and giving the lean rich event.  It drove smoothly with no map prediction enabled, albeit with less power during transient events.  This was a big clue.

So what now?  Well, I revisited all the data in the map senmsor prediction tables, I checked against recent logs and was able to update the values and there were some that were 10 or 20 percent out of whack.  WHat you see in the logs is the Map value the ecu is calculating fuelling from, the final value after prediction is applied, so it kinda chwecked out that it was lean by 20percent where the map prediction table was 20kpa different to what it should have been,  That should have fixed it in theory, but it didnt.  SO wtf now?

Well I started on other theory around the map sensor.  I was considering putting an external one on, or actually finding a vacuum pump and trying to do the test on the sensor in the ecu to rule it out when I had another idea.  I thought, since this first touch has never really been a smooth event in this car it might be a problem thats beyond software and in the mechanical system.  I had the idea that I might be taking my map sensor reading from a bad location.  I had been getting the map sensor data from the idle control maifold that I had designed.  I started to wonder if everything going on here was a problem for generating a clean accurate signal.  The cylinder type manifold connects the 4 ports to the idle controller with even access to air, it also accepts the pcv via the typical one way valve off the top cover, it gets the purge valve returns input to it, it provides the vacuum reference for the fuel reg, which could also lead to a lean spot if its too slow to rise the pressure as the throttle opens, and it was also the place where the map sensor gets its signal.  I started thinking about it and I wondered if the signal quality was poor and I would be better off getting this signal from a dedicated connection to map sensor only.  I decided that since the fuel reg and map sensor are about the metering and finer running of the car, that they would have a dedicated feed of MAP signal.  I made a 4-2-1 hose setup from the calibration ports on the manifold adapter, and teed in the extra feed for the fuel reg reference.  I plugged the old map sensor hole in the idle bottle manifold. 

Problem solved.  The car now feels as smooth from the first touch as any car I've driven, even the single throttle ones, its just as driveable, can hold constant throttle just off zero without hunting or surging, its just dead smooth.  Total win.

In other news, Anika is amazing and were very lucky she is such a good kid.  Thers also this low key R31 skyline posse up here, I see about 3 or 4 different JDM look r31 here around town.

I also treated my self to a dished wheel and extra long bosskit, its great, really easy to control.

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Great project mate. I've scanned through the whole thing, over the last 2 weeks. Lots of work done. 

Can you help me with some info please, if poss. 

I have a 2az-fe, and I'm thinking about fitting it into a lexus is200. Pull the heavy 6 cyl. Iron block out, for a lightweight 4 cyl. Aluminium engine, with an extra 400cc, pretty much the same sort of thing you've done on yours. 

Any idea if the 2az-fe, will bolt onto the J160 gearbox in the is200 ? That car has a 1G-FE engine. 

I've searched Google loads, but can't find any info on gearbox bolt pattern measurements, to see if its shares dimensions.

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Hello, thanks for reading.  As far as I know the Toyota G engine pattern is shared with the old T engine, making your gearbox ideal upgrade for an older corolla or carina with 3tgte etc.  The best option for a 2azfe would be a beams 6 speed, and custom flywheel to make it work.  As far as I know the beams 6 speed has the desireable cold side starter, but Id have to see one to confirm, but being S pattern the dowels will centre the box correctly and you might just need to drilll and tap a few holes.

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11 hours ago, LittleRedSpirit said:

Hello, thanks for reading.  As far as I know the Toyota G engine pattern is shared with the old T engine, making your gearbox ideal upgrade for an older corolla or carina with 3tgte etc.  The best option for a 2azfe would be a beams 6 speed, and custom flywheel to make it work.  As far as I know the beams 6 speed has the desireable cold side starter, but Id have to see one to confirm, but being S pattern the dowels will centre the box correctly and you might just need to drilll and tap a few holes.

Are you taking about the Japanese version of the is200? The Altezza, with the 3sge engine. I think the starter motor is on the opposite side.

When you say G pattern, is that the first letter after the number ? 

1'G'-FE you mean ? 

So the 2az-fe, is 'A' pattern, if I'm right ? 

Sorry to sound ignorant, I'm a vauxhall man myself, and don't know what the engines codes stand for. I only know the 'T' stands for turbo. Same with Nissan I believe 25DE'T' for instance. 

Edited by Is-2az

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Typically Toyota rngine codes are as follows.

eg 4AGE:

4 - 4th design revision, A - Engine Series, G - Wide valve performance design head typically from Yamaha, E - EFI

 

eg 3SGE:

3 - 3rd design revision of S Engine, G- Performance Head, E - EFI.

 

eg 4AFE:

4 the revision of A engine, F - Narrow angle valve layout for economy, E - EFI.

A T later in the name means turbo, Like in 3SGTE - So thats 3rd revion of S engine, with performance head, turbo, and efi.  Dont confuse this with the earlier series of Engines, the T engines, eg 3TC, 3TGTE which is the 3rd T engine desin with a carb or turbo efi respectively.  Over time they added more codes for more features.  A Z Later on in the name typically refers to a supercharger, eg 4AGZE.

It gets weirder the later the motor, with most Toyota engines now featuring two letter model designations, Like UZ, ZZ, AZ, NZ, MZ, VZ, GR, GZ, JZ etc, and these typically are just engines produced after a certain date, but it gets confusing when they reuse letters that used to mean SC in the engine codes.  Some new tech that came out got different designations in the name, for example, an gernerator tuned engine that a  hybrid uses is Usually designated with an X, For example the camry hybrid 2AZFXE.  The direct Injection motors are S designated, for example 2GRFSE.

If thats all clear as mud then factor in how enhusiasts like to build and name their own combos, from which weve seen things like the 1.5JZ, for the man who wants more power but wont upgrade turbo, heads and manfolds on his 1JZ build, or the 7age, Which is the 1.8A 4AF engine with the GE head.  This is extra confusing with the 4age aftermarket, because an original takao special 7ag is just specific build of 4a 1600 that revs super high, but a later enthusiast will think its 1.8 litres.  So yeah long answer to what should have been a simple question.

Heres a pic of the Beams 6 speed, the starter is in a good spot at least at first glance its on the inlet side of the engine, so if its in the right spot compared to the block you could do what I have done and just chop away some extra block and give yourself the clearance you need.  To be honest, a 6 speed would be a nice addition because it has the power to highway drive an ae86 at 1800rpm but it does 2900 at 100kph.  Even with a 3.58 rear end gearset.  You could run 3.9 or 4.1 gears and be perfectly happy with it, and make the engine haul the IS body around a bit more spritely when youre not in overdrive.

To clarify my comments, the 6 cylinder G engine in the Altezza shares the pattern with the older T engine, which makes your transmission an upgrade for older corolla and celica platform cars, E and A chassis codes, that had a T engine.  So thats who could use your box aside from an altezza G engine owner.  I'd suggest to offload the G box and swap it for the S pattern 6 speed from the RS200 altezza, and then the 2azfe would at least connect to the box thats in the car, and you can start investigating clearances for inlet, exhaist, steering, crossmembers etc.

 

TOYOTA-ALTEZZA-3SGE-BEAMS-6MT-GEARBOX-for-sale-uk-europe-4.jpg

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Much appreciated for the tutorial lesson. I will try and assimilate all that info, and hopefully my neanderthal brain can make some sense of the coding terminology. 

Now that you mention, the 'F'.. I remember now, thats the economy version. I used to have a 1.8 7afe in a celica, economy head, and another celica, with a 2.0 3sge, performance head.

I've heard people say that rs200 box is hard to get hold of, here in England, but I will have a look, and see. It's possibly more expensive than my car, haha. 

I see what you're saying now, about the cold side starter. Away from the exhaust

Edited by Is-2az

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I had a look at the ratios on the j160 from the altezza.  The 6th is actually shorter than w57 5th which seems like a wasted gear.  Youd still need a tallish diff ratio.

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On 9/22/2020 at 10:24 PM, LittleRedSpirit said:

I had a look at the ratios on the j160 from the altezza.  The 6th is actually shorter than w57 5th which seems like a wasted gear.  Youd still need a tallish diff ratio.

I think the standard model car, with an open diff, has a slightly longer ratio, than the sport models, and auto's. 

I've heard of people fitting the automaric diff, for better acceleration.

The sport models have an lsd diff, better for skids. 

That gearbox also goes by the name AZ6. 

Any idea if the AZ number, relates to bolt pattern ? 

The 2az-fe engine I have is automatic, so I'll need a flywheel, and clutch, to convert it to manual

Edited by Is-2az

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Same as a KE70, the Altezza manual runs a 4.1, the auto a 4.3.

Found the page I was after...  Here's a comparison of the K, T W & J160 boxes, and the 'close-ratio' 5 speed from the Datsun Z series.  You'll see the J160 has a lot more gears crammed into the same ratio space, with 5th as 1:1 like most gearboxes 4th.  It just great if you're working your way though the tight & twistys, but not noticeable if you're on straighter roads.

J160 6th gear is 0.87, the same as a K50 5th, so definitely not a tall gearbox.

K-T comparison.jpg

Edited by altezzaclub
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