B.L.Z.BUB Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Ok so engine TDC, all timing marks lined up, dizzy pulled out and timing marks lined up and installed back to the center of the adjustment bolts as per manual instructions. I bolted the dizzy on loosely and made a mark in the center of adjustment as a guide to get it in the right spot. Timing still wayyyyyyy out. Still a pig to start. Moltovs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 How much you reckon it is out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.L.Z.BUB Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 50 degrees? Same as the picture above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 You got the timing light pickup going the right way? You working off the timing cover marks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.L.Z.BUB Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Timing light will only work one way. Working off timing spike plus the timing cover marks. Both put the timing about 50mm to the left. Adjusting the dizzy by eye and guessing doesnt seem to change much, also getting smoke coming from the engine sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Ok so engine TDC, all timing marks lined up, Have you checked TDC with a wire down a spark plug hole, or are you working off camshaft marks. Any chance the pulley TDC mark was made for a different engine? Did you check the weights in the dizzy when you had it out?? broken spring in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.L.Z.BUB Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 There is a seperate mark you can use to make sure the crank is lined up and they all do. Ill check tje dizzy weights now, just got home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.L.Z.BUB Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Pulled the dizzy off and inspected it closer. The air gap between signal rotor and coil projection was way too small, practically touching. So I regapped them both to just under 0.4. Engine started fine, timing marks seemed to be in the right place, adjusted the dizzy to 10 degrees, unplugged the diagnostic bridge and it jumped out to 16 degrees. All as it should. Turned engine off, tried to start it again, coughed and spluttered, I had to turn the engine off then on again a few times before it ran and then the timing had jumped right out again. I don't get it. New plugs, leads, dizzy gaps are correct, and ALL necessary timing marks are lined up properly. No shaft play in dizzy. Now reading the mitchee manual there seems to be a lot of evidence that my engine is in fact an MR2 bigport. The dizzy plug is round, plus the crank pulley/timing spike business. Yet the ECU has AE82 written on it. Problem? Also has a 7 rib block. Just checked the ECU part number its definitely an AE82 ECU. Edited October 1, 2012 by B.L.Z.BUB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Does anyone know if it has a mechanical advance system in that dizzy?? There's no need to once the ECU is advanced enough to calculat the advance that the motor can take, like the Altezza with no dizzy, but early electronics still had weights. What else can randomly cause spark advance? A loose dizzy shaft? play in the dizzy drive? How does the ECU read the crank position on those motors? A crank angle sensor? I assume all it needs that for is to fire the injectors, and the dizzy fires the coil off that 4-spoked wheel. So can the ECU advance the spark, or must it have weights under that dizzy plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Turned engine off, tried to start it again, coughed and spluttered, I had to turn the engine off then on again a few times before it ran and then the timing had jumped right out again. Loose crank pulley?? Loose dizzy?? Loose dizzy drive gear?? Something is turning relative to the crank now and then when you turn it off in that over-run period of the last couple of strokes. Does the dizzy have a cross-pin holding a gear on the bottom?? Is that secure?? Wha is it like grabbing the rotor and turning it back and forth?? You should feel the 35deg of advance in that movement, and it should always sit back at minimum advance when you turn the motor off. You might have to check that, start it, turn it off, check it again, start it again... a dozen times to see if it does always go back to zero. Edited October 1, 2012 by altezzaclub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.L.Z.BUB Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) There is no movement at all in the rotor. Would the fact the starter motor is hard wired to a push start be the problem. Doesnt the ECU need to know whats going on there? Edited October 1, 2012 by B.L.Z.BUB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 There is no movement at all in the rotor. Ok, no weights then. I can just lift the dizzy cap on the KE70 and turn the rotor a little each way, maybe 20deg.. So.. any ideas on what causes the motor to advance at all?? That is assuming its not a locked dizzy! Does it advance out to over 30deg when you rev it? I'm sure the starter doesn't affect it, and if it did it should be the same every time you start it. If the dizzy is fine, which I'm suspicious about, the other option would be some other sensor the car uses for timing ignition. The Altezza runs a crank and two cam timng sensors, puts all that together & directly fires a coil, but you can't be doing that or you wouldn't need that star wheel in the dizzy. If your ECU was determining the timing and firing it, they would just hook it up to the coil & just use the dizzy to carry the rotor.. So I think its is meant to advance with weights... Someone on here later tonight is bound to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Emailed Rob, seeing he's a professional mechanic and I'm an amateur, and he said- Ecu or harness problem - the ecu is out of ae82 and the engine is from mr2. I'd be double checking that the ignition systems are the same. Exactly the same. Maybe a sensor problem? Something is different between mr2 and ae82. There are two sensors in that dizzy, engine position and engine rpm. Both go to the ecu and the ecu controls the timing. So, definately no weights, and the electronics probably aren't talking to each other properly. Seeing Rob is building a Megasquirt from a kit atm, he can help you convert to one of those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.L.Z.BUB Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Yeah I'm in the process of tracking down and comparing ECU's, so far it seems that all the pin outs are the same. Next is to track down wiring diagrams for both, I have found an AE82 one in the wiki. Just need an MR2 one to compare. Ok some more info from the googles, supposedly the Australian market got an AE82 with a red top 7 rib bigport. From all the information I can gather the ECU should work fine (ill keep googling though). Edited October 1, 2012 by B.L.Z.BUB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.L.Z.BUB Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Would insufficient grounding cause these issues? Or would it be constant and not intermittent. In saying that its a constant issue that happens intermittently if you get what I mean. Or would insufficient grounding cause starting issues every single time I try to start it? Hard to explain. :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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