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4Age Lacking


crustydemons666

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Hi,

I took my t18 4age out for a spin on the weekend, 1st real test of what it can do and sadly I'm not happy with it.

I have a bigport efi 4age, it is definitely more powerful than my old 3tc once its above the 5k mark.

It seems to run fine but really lacking under 5k, i understand 4age don't have much torque.

So my reason for my topic is, what is the next upgrade. I'm pretty sure I'm going to convert back to carbs/twin carbs as i feel more comfortable playing with carbs over efi. good move or not?

supercharge efi/carb?

turbo efi/carb?

or possible 7age conversion efi/carb?

 

ideas and thoughts please?

 

p.s car will be used for drift/track days/hill climb events.

Edited by crustydemons666
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First of all make sure it is running as it should. All sensors connected and functional, cam timing, static timing blah blah blah.

 

The point with factory EFI (I have no idea about your setup) is that there is basically nothing you can do to it.

 

If you have factory management, you will benefit from a thinner head gasket, and cleaning up the head. Ignition and fuelling there is little you can do other that adding a fuel pressure regulator. The latter will improve throttle response and make it feel faster. Yes you can put cams in but the factory ECU is a limiting factor.

 

I have done all those things and love it for what it is, a revvy, responsive zippy car. What it isn't is mega powerful.

 

Focus on suspension, don't go stupid on wheel and tire width and enjoy driving it.

 

If you go carbs, you can go stupid on cams. But for the cost of setting those up properly , you can aftermarket management and retain some driveability as well.

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I've got adjustable coilover front end, rack and pinion, whiteline sway bars all round, adjustable panhard rod, pedders heavy duty ford falcon rear springs and running some basic 15inch mags with 185/60/15 for the road.

Car handles awesome and love the suspension setup has made such a difference.

I'm using factory wiring lume that has been butchered to work on my car by the previous owner. Exhaust and throttle sensors are hooked up. On that note ecu is hooked up with the bare minimum requirements.

Timing is running at 26 degrease, i know its a bit high but it runs like a dog anything lower, everything lines up nice on tdc.

I have a feeling it has something to do with the ecu... That's why i was thinking of going back to carbs but id hate to convert it over and not be happy still.

So I'm thinking while i have the car off the road is it worth working it a bit like cams and carbs? Doing 7age conversion? Possible get it ready for a charger or turbo?

Also is it worth getting it ported and polished, i have a spare head from the old blown motor i might be able to get worked?

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The ECU is fine, but it can only work with the signals it receives. Get the loom sorted. In this day and age, with accessibility to yahoo it always astonishes me that people don't source factory RWD looms. Not just the engine loom, but the engine bay ancillary loom and dash loom. If you will spend $750 plus on debatebly useful coilovers, spend a fraction of that on correct looms so the ECU knows what is going on.

 

Cam and static timing is basic mechanics.

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it wont run nice any lower than 25 degrease, i know its possibly a tooth out but i have tried that.

all the running gear/motor and loom was out of a doner car. (4age in a ae71) i was working with what i already had.

it is all in a t18 now. if you know of a loom to suit a t18 id be more than happy to try it but if i work th motor the factory ecu is useless, and will need an aftermarket ecu.

with an aftermarket ecu can you get a loom to suit?

side note compression tested at 150.

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Not having a go at you. Realistically, most people follow the same route you have.

 

If you want to get really serious with a tunable motor, you need to invest in after market management. But even then you will spend buckets and it is still a 1600cc naturally aspirated motor.

 

You need to evaluate what you really want from the car. A daily driver you do a few events in? Then it needs to be streetable (and legal). A dedicated comp car? Different again.

 

Be realistic about your expectations. Everyone wants a fire breathing weapon on the commute to work, not many actually have one. And if they do it's a pig. 4AGE AE86's are fun nimble revvy cars that feel like they are going twice as fast as they actually are. It's not a GTR or whatever.

 

And sort out the timing, it will make a big difference.

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atm the car is rego'd still and I'm waiting for the day it gets a yellow sticker. i don't drive the car much anymore to avoid the sticker but it wont effect me if its not rego'd.

i did this conversion because it all seem to fall into place at the right time for the right price, so far its cost me $1500 installed for my whole setup. rwd 4age and suspension componants.

now that the car has all the extras in it I'm keen to race it in one form or another but don't feel its that nice of a motor. probably not wired up correctly, thats why i thought about going carbs to avoid the hassel of efi. in the near future its going to get some work done to it. so with the cost of an upgraded ecu and new loom, would i be better of going carbs with a cam or something?

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Sounds to me like the engine isnt hooked up like it is meant to be (elecltrically), therefore it will never run how it is meant to.

 

I dunno how electrically minded you are, but if you study the 4age loom there is not alot too it.

 

TVIS for instance is only 1 wire to the tvis actuator, the other wire goes to ground.

 

Alot of the wires in an loom that you buy isnt actually needed to run the engine in a converted car, as generally they incorporate alot of other stuff to make it neater (lights, aircon etc).

 

Even the proper RWD looms from ae86s still contain stuff you don't need to run the engine in a conversion situation.

 

This should be your engine/ecu.

 

http://club4ag.com/t...a-gts-ecu-pins/

 

if you are in doubt that your loom is stuffed (which i think i think you are), i suggest you remove the loom completely from the car, pull appart all the tape/insulation from the loom, and follow every single wire from the ecu, and make sure it goes where it is meant to go. Then you can remove anything that isnt needed, and end up with a loom that you know is correct, and that is as minimal as it needs to be.

 

Also remember these looms/wires are going on 30yrs old, and unless you physically pull it from the original car, its probably been installed and removed from many cars through many conversions.....wires and plugs don't like being removed too many times, so its not unheard of to find broken wires in the middle of a loom!

 

oh yeah, if your TVIS is not working, then don't expect any go below 3800? rpm (which i think is where it turns off). if i remember correctly, TVIS is actuated by vacuum, and the solenoid blocks the vacuum source at the specificed rpm. thus the tvis plates are always open, thus it runs like its meant too above ~3800, but you don't get the benifits at the lower rpm.

Edited by ke70dave
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Yeah I worked out that my 4age had been in 3 cars before mine.

 

My loom was pretty stuffed but I managed to fix it, there was a serious amount of unneeded wires also.

I would never bother with a RWD loom as it will hardly be much better.

 

They e-manage will help with power in the long run.

 

 

if you are in doubt that your loom is stuffed (which i think i think you are), i suggest you remove the loom completely from the car, pull appart all the tape/insulation from the loom, and follow every single wire from the ecu, and make sure it goes where it is meant to go. Then you can remove anything that isnt needed, and end up with a loom that you know is correct, and that is as minimal as it needs to be.

 

 

I just pulled the ecu end of the loom into the engine bay, and tested the connectivity from the plug of a particular (dizzy for example) and the pinout on the ecu. Its a easy job just takes time.

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A lot of that extra stuff may not be needed for the car to run properly.

 

Until you turn on the headlights, heater etc and it won't idle. So you turn up the idle and its over 2000rpm at the traffic lights.

 

Again, if you intend it as a daily driver, it really isn't that hard to do it properly.

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