Ke20 Coil Front. Rear Leaf / Coil Hybrid. Rear Swaybar.

[brett_qld]

I'm looking at taking all but the locating leaf out of the spring pack and replacing the shocks with a set of coilovers.

Need to firm up the rear suspension, reduce body roll and the more adjustable the better.

 

The Rolla is used for drift events and occasional road use. It already has an RX2 LSD fitted and mod plated, it is also seam welded and has a 6 point cage fitted and mod plated. The towers will be braced and the diff mounts are already overkill to support the weight at the shock mounts.

 

I would like to go a full 4 link rear eventually but I would need to find an engineer in QLD happy to sign it off first. So I think for now this will be a good upgrade. I'm thinking a speedyway / drag universal anti rollbar would be the easiest option for the rear swaybar.

 

Anybody gone down the leaf / coil hybrid path?

[crunk81us]

wouldnt the single main leaf twist like all F..K under load? I get axle tramp with all of the standard leafs with the short bottom one flipped and put on top of the pack.. I think you would have to do a 4 link to make it work?

[brett_qld]

Not sure mate, I have heard of it being done on other cars. My understanding is the leaves are only used to locate the diff.

By twist are you meaning looking down at the car, with the centre of the diff as the pivot, the wheels moving toward/away from the front wheels?

Or are you meaning the pinion shaft nosing down/up?

[Jono.C]

I have seen this done, but never once seen it be successful. Mono leaf is shit.

 

If you just want it stiffer/ less roll upgrade swaybar, add a Hilux leaf to the packs or have them reset, and fit stiffer shocks.. No need to go overkill

[coln72]

Ran my KE20 with two leaves - the two biggest - with no tramp issues. Softened the rear and removed the rear way bar to try an reduce the oversteer.

 

 

The factory Escort rally cars went ok with single rear leaves....

[brett_qld]

Key part is I'll be using coils to control height and spring rate, with added bonus of dampner control. Not just running mono leaf.

[oh what a nissan feeling!]

If you were to remove all except one of your leafs you need to add links to the front leaf mounts to stop the diff winding up. It really is a bad idea anyways. Better off just going to a proper 4 link if you really want to go that way, which can be approved in qld.

 

Or add a watts link or panhard to existing leaf setup, play around with leaf combinations to get a good spring rate, and get some really good shocks to control the springs. This if well thought out is likely to be enough to get the car to where you want it to be.

[brett_qld]

Thanks for the feedback fellas, I'll chase up an engineer that is willing to mod plate a 4 link.

[BUZ440]

Ahh your better to go either a 5 or 6 link rear as said above as your drifting the diff will move side to side at least 20mm minimum either way

 

If on a budget, caltracs and Panhard rod

[Redwarf]

You'll punch the top out of the top mounts. Bracing won't cut it, you would want to fabricate turrets a la group 4 Escort fashion.

 

Personally after racing a 25 for many years you'd be better off sorting a really good leaf pack set up. It's not a dark art.

[brett_qld]

 

Well I managed to graft a ta22 rear swaybar to the arse end.

It has helped a lot, although I need to replace the front swaybar now. It appears that when fitting the 3tc they have modified the standard swaybar to accommodate the front sump. I'd say it has weakened it and reduced its spring rate.

 

I think after installing the front swaybar a stiffer set of leaves and adjustable dampers probably would do the job, it is lifting the inside rear during hard corners, so it's pretty clear the front needs work.

 

If I go the AJPS weldon coilover path should I stick with the ke20 strut tubes or switch to ra28 ones?

I want to go to 114.3 pattern. I also have to machine up some Roll centre adjusters. I want to keep the short ke20 knuckles.

 

So I can either stick with ke20 struts, celica hubs, weld on coilovers and make the rca blocks with straight holes and dowel tubes, but hows the availability on strut inserts for the 20 tubes? Less work.

Or, I can use some ra28 struts I have spare, weldon coilovers, make the rca blocks with offset holes and dowel tubes, block bolts to strut, knuckles bolts to thread in the rca block. Bigger stub axle more strut insert availability? More work though.

 

Opinions or advice?

[Doogs]

I'd be changing struts if I were you mate, more shock choices if you move to something like a AE86/XT130/RA40 diameter strut. I'm running a KYB AW10 shock from the US in my standard strut, but I will be moving away from that in time.

 

One thing to consider though if you change steering arms as well, is that standard 86 powersteering arms are actually longer than standard KE2x arms.

KE2x are around 110mm long and 86 PS are 115mm, meaning you will actually lose steering lock.

You'd want to get them cut/shut or run something else for drift use.

[parrot]

If you go for struts other than KE20, you can't use the KE20 steering arms as the bolt spacing is out by about 5 mm. You can source TE27 steering knuckles which have the right bolt spacing, but are reasonably hard to find and usually pricey (usually more than $200 via yahoo Japan). You might get lucky buying them from the US but people have woken up to that and source and sell them on.

 

You can use AE86 power steer arms (also not exactly cheap) as above but the KE20 arm balljoint pin has a smaller diameter and requires bushing. I think you can get these from T3. Personally I wouldn't follow that path.

 

If you use struts from something else, consider that the king pin inclination may not suit, i.e. give you unwanted positive camber (as happens with AE86 struts). To dial this out you use adjustable strut tops, but there isn't a lot of room in a KE20 strut tower to move the struts in, thus you are obligated to use coil overs.

 

etc etc.

 

A TA22 swaybar should bolt in and clear your sump. You may want to rethink your rear swaybar, or make it adjustable.

[brett_qld]

I ordered the T3 balljoint taper adapter, and a set of their ae86 PS arms, which have the stock length holes plus an extra set of inboard holes giving more lock than the ke20 arms had.

 

I'm leaning toward the AE86 HSD Mono coilover set on ebay. It looks to be good value, adjustable coilovers, camber tops, rca blocks, adjustable rear shocks and adjustable spring rear setup (I could use those on my celica) for not much more than some of the other brands are asking for bare front coilovers.

 

It would be a lot less mucking around than trial and error building a set of ra40 coilovers, by the time I bought all the parts would cost about the same?

[brett_qld]

So the dimensions that I found for the ke20 knuckles were wrong, the inboard holes on the t3 ae86 knuckles are still a little longer than the ke20.

Not to worry though as I'm scrubbing the inside guard, not running out of rack. It should make the steering a little bit lighter and I think I'll still have enough lock to scrub the tyres.

 

I ordered a HSD coilover set but the seller didn't have stock despite saying they did. Was told a 6 week wait. Went with a BC set from a local shop instead. They came with camber tops but you need to drill a new hole in the strut tower as ae86 tops aren't asymmetrical.

I'll have to make a new strut tower which is no biggie, the existing one is pretty crude anyway.

 

I have a set of ae86 hubs with jdm vented rotors (~240x18) I'll probably just go with the rx7 4 pots that most people run unless they don't fit in the rims. I shifted the camber tops inwards and the eyeball laser says I'll have neg camber. I was only aiming for -1 so I think they'll do. If not, I'll machine up some new strut tops and make them fit the original tower holes.