Banjo Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Hi Keith, Quote Can we get a probe into the back of the head via a heater pipe? Will definitely be placing a probe in the back of the head area, as I know from previous tests, a couple of years ago, that water in the very back of the head suffers from poor circulation, & elevated temperatures. With the water pump at the front & the discharge of water through the front, its a case of the water flow taking the "path of least resistance". Cheers Banjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Hi Jeremy, Quote so ud have to remove the T-stat, temporarily reinstall the housing, do the air push out at ~1200rpm, then reinstall thermostat and fill up the top hose very slowly. being carefull not to fill it so fast u push air back down i to the head. (the thermostats presence should avoid this) There should not be a necessity to do this, if everything is OK. Imagine if the Toyota manual used that instruction, you describe. It would indicate a design fault. Based on the picture of your head that you posted, & what the quality of your local water did, in terms of corrosion, I have a gut feeling, that there is something very wrong inside the coolant system of your engine. You are correct, that the water pump is needed to produce flow in a closed circular coolant system. Based on your statements, my first suspect would be the water pump itself. Have you had it off lately, & had a look inside. I wouldn't be surprised if the vanes on the impellor are all corroded away, & doing little more than cavitating the water in the local area. As you presently have the head off, I'd be removing some whelsh plugs on the block & having a look inside. You might be shocked. With the head off, it would also be a good idea to remove the plate on the very back of the head, which gives access to the head's water jacket. Again, you might be shocked. Cheers Banjo Edited January 22, 2018 by Banjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 You guys are massively complicating this..... Do all the hose clamps up, put the heater on hot, fill it with coolant start the engine, give it a few revs (i dont buy into this premature revving whatever, if its got some water rev all you want to get bubbles out), let it heat up, give the hoses a few sqeezes, fill it up when all the bubbles come out, take it for a spin, check the coolant again when it cools down. DONE! The internet carries on about bleeding cooling systems being difficult but the reality is if you follow the above, crack open any bleeder screws (4k doesnt have any, but some engines do) i would say it would be a 95% success rate. The other 5% require the funnel. Jeremy your description of removing the thermostat to bleed the engine is a waste of time. If this was required toyota would have put a bleed screw on top of the thermostat housing. My bmw engine has a bleed screw here cause the radiator is lower than the thermostat housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) Strangely enough, when I was digging around in all my bits & pieces the other day, looking for the box of old thermostats, I came across an old 3K thermostat cover/spout/outlet thingy, that actually had a hole right in the top of the housing. It was OEM, as the hole had a land around it, not just previously drilled out & threaded, by some enterprising individual. Just went out, & looked for it in the shed, so I could take a pic of it, but it is almost 40 deg C, so retreated to my office. Looked up the net & low & behold, someone in Thailand, is selling aftermarket ones. https://www.ebay.com/itm/THERMOSTAT-HOUSING-FOR-3K-ENGINE-TOYOTA-COROLLA-KE20-KE25-KE26-KE30-KE36-KE38/152473006588?hash=item23801971fc:g:cmoAAOSwax5YyQiY&vxp=mtr Have no idea what was fitted into this hole originally. Probable a temp sensor of some kind. There you are Jeremy. Get one, & fit a little tap or cock to it, & you've got a coolant bleeder, & you won't have to remove & reinstall the thermostat cover ever again. Cheers Banjo Edited January 23, 2018 by Banjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuilder86 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) i seem to be copping a bit of flack for putting my findings out there. Waste of time? (so i should just leave the 500 mls that it gets out, back in the engine??) its not a waste of time, it releases about 500 mls of air from the system, this air is not the result of any impeller cavitation, its 500 mls of air. see my video again. as soon as u stop revving, the air pocket returns back into the head so u have to fill it with the revs up then let the revs go. i don't actually think that bleed hole would even help with the issue i experience. if there was any air that made it into the tstat cover it would easily rise up the top hose to the radiator. but it doesnt it sits there, forever, u till u put a wave of flow behind the air to bring it to the front. if u don't fill it while that wave is holding the air the front, and let the engine go back to idle again, the water level will settle again and gravity will push the air bubble back into the head. i see ot with my own eyes. I suspect it gets stuck in the head above the level of the water outlet and tstat area. so yes, perhaps an engineering problem. Anybody actually tried it yet or are we happy to just keep telling me I am wasting my time using my brain. and trying to help others for that matter. Edited January 23, 2018 by rebuilder86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuilder86 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Banjo said: There you are Jeremy. Get one, & fit a little tap or cock to it, & you've got a coolant bleeder, & you won't have to remove & reinstall the thermostat cover ever again. i think u may have. missunderstood my procedure. the thermostat itself gets in the way. the only way to do it with a thermostat in place would be t9 have the thetmostat hot enough that its open. that wouod mean then opening the radiator at operating temp, I'm not recommending that. the only way is to remove and then replace the tstat itself, then slowly fill the remainder. Its becoming a bit too complicated to explain on here, so i think ill have to draw a diagram. my logic is sound, i just can't verbalize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 hang on, your 4kc is in a little 4wd isnt it jeremey? so the radiator might be lower than it normally is in a corolla? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuilder86 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 yeh its a little wierd jungle jeep thing, however the radiator is still located well above the engine. I have the same success bleeding our bush basher ke55 (seen inverted in my avatar haha) and can also get another 500 mls in it by revving to 1200. but again, in that we have no thermostat. what is really needed is a cylinder head bleed screw. because u couldnt expect anyone to figure this out with a thermostat. the ait pocket would stay there, forever leading to 2 problems in order of significance: 1. compressible space in a compressed cooling system (defeats entire purpose of compressed cooling system) 2. hot spots at top of cylinder head where air pockets reside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) I have no issue with revving engines when bleeding, never had a problem. get a bit of heat into it and the thermostat starts to open, give it a rew revs and watch the bubbles come out, all good. I've even run engines long enough to get it in and out of the garage with no coolant and all has been well (~10secs). Sure not recommended by anyone, but in reality in my limited anecdotal experiences it doesn't hurt. Edited January 23, 2018 by ke70dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) Quote fans... I just hit the wreckers.. Square blades are more efficient but noisier, curved blades quieter but don't move as much air. I cover about half the rad, as the fan itself gets in the way of airflow when driving, and I spend more time driving that sitting with the fan on. You don't need much cooling at idle on a hot day. Hi Keith, Did a bit of research, on suitable fan sizes that would suit the standard KE radiator, but the answer was right under my nose. I bought my daughter a 2004 Echo last year, & I went out and measured it's radiator & fan up this morning, & it is almost perfect. It's outside frame couling/shroud, is within a cm of the KE radiator core dimensions, in both directions. If anyone has utilised an Echo fan on a KE sucessfully, please give me a yell. I will get hold of one, & adapt it, using a spare radiator I have in the shed, then pop it in one weekend. On paper, it should be an easy & clean swap. I'll post a pic on here, when it is done, after which I'll do some temperature data logging exercises, with multiple temp points, to see exactly how well it performs. Cheers Banjo Edited January 26, 2018 by Banjo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuilder86 Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 i seem to recall a couple of instances where toyota echo parts have been perfect accompaniments to this engine. something about the transmisson bell housing and spline being the same (Fwd tho??), and also the engine mounts are similar. maybe because they have a computer program with a button that sais "start designing now, from generic toyota small car model" and its probably all based of a basic sizing principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRedSpirit Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 First Ive heard about echo motor fitting a k box. Thats pretty unlikely if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuilder86 Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 yeh i tried to find where i saw that and i can't find it. i thought it was on here. someone talked about fitting an echo motor because it somewhat lined up with the k box or something. i actually thought it was u banjo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viterbo Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 Banjo the Starlets had that thermostat housing with the hole because it's where they have the temp sensor for the electric fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Thanks Mate ! That solves that riddle. Might get one, as I bought a Echo radiator & fan assembly on Gumtree yesterday, here in Brisbane, & will pick up this coming week, & fit to the KE30, so that it has a thermofan, doing away with the plastic noisy water pump fan. All the existing "spare" temperature pick up points on the thermostat housing, are physically, behind the thermostat, so the point on the top of the thermostat outlet spout, is basically the temperature at the top of the radiator. Cheers Banjo Edited January 27, 2018 by Banjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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