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5K Head Identification


Banjo

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Hi Guys,

              Have acquired a 5K engine, completely stripped.  It looks to be in fairly good nick.  The engine has been used for speedway at some time, & could have/highly likely, been modified.

The pistons are flat tops, & the head has identification no: 95 between spark plugs 3 & 4.

Can't find any mention of no: 95 in the Rollaclub WiKi under "Heads".

Anyone got any idea, whether a head no: 95 is actually from a 5K, or another K series engine.

Lots of measuring to do, in the next few weeks, to try & work out, what has been done to this engine.

Cheers Banjo

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Yeah,  from our own WiKi . . . .

Quote

Dished piston 4Ks did exist, in the 4K-U and 4K-E variants, each having different piston dish capacity. Most 5Ks are dished, but there are some 5k's with flat top pistons, these engines also can have solid lifters,however aftermarket flat-top pistons do exist.

My initial thoughts were, that maybe if the head was off a 4K with flat pistons, then, when mated with the 5K block, with greater swept volume in the cylinder, the CR would be much, much higher.

At the weekend, I'll lay it all out, & have a good look at everything. I might even measure the capacity of the combustion chamber in the head, & work out the CR it must have had.

Just that I've never come across a no: 95 head before, so would love to know, what K engine it was originally fitted to.  Might help solve the riddle.

Cheers Banjo

Edited by Banjo
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I can assure you this particular engine has been apart, hence, I can't assume anything is as it was originally, when the engine was made.

It definitely is has a 95, head identification number, but I have searched the net, & can't find any reference to it whatsoever.

DSC00368_LI.thumb.jpg.aa3df088bbedca37224b93b9c096ff14.jpg

However, a quick look at this afternoon, provided a few clues.

The head appears it was used on a K series engine that was originally fitted to a forklift or something, that used external water cooling. Maybe a water cooled manifold ?

DSC00366_LI.thumb.jpg.0a8076efe50e5414e7d1d0140059b3e7.jpg

The head water lines are still there. Just cut & welded up.

Most K series heads have the two plugs at the centre of the head, but this head has two (2) additional water jacket access points next to the front & rear head bolts on the manifold side of the head.

5a5fce3cf035c_DSC00367_LI-Copy.thumb.jpg.f26a8d29344ef6f9aef52f79a63d1a14.jpg

 

The other tell tale feature is the home made spacers under the steel rocker mounts.

DSC00369_LI.thumb.jpg.4b81da1527c94766691292556bd0e2e4.jpg

The steel rocker mounts could well have come from a 3K engine, as I believe they all had steel mounts, rather than aluminium, which were widely used on the 4Ks.  However, the 3K block was lower than the 4K & 5K engines, so they may have made the spacers up to obtain the correct "sweep" of the rocker face across the top of the valve stem, using one of the 6-8 different pushrod lengths that were used in K series engines.

This is what the combustion chamber looks like.

DSC00361.thumb.JPG.b807f0938e00a129a473daafb8c866a5.JPG

 

Hope someone can spot something, that can give me a clue as to where a no: 95 head was used.

Cheers Banjo

Edited by Banjo
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Here's another little something, that someone may recognise, about this head.  The cover plate on the back of the head, does not have an outlet pipe on it, like my 4K-U, which feeds the heater box under the dash.  It was probably fitted to something, that didn't have a heater. Fork Lift ?

It has an additional little bracket, someone may recognise.

DSC00371_LI.thumb.jpg.abf6be49bd2f02c505d4d7519495e6ae.jpg

Cheers Banjo

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hmm. those water jackets look like theyd suffer the same problems u warned me about in the photos i shoeed u. which makes me wonder, surely toyoota would make the 5 k head have more clearance between the steel head gasket rings and the coolant holes??? makes me suspicious that maybe its not a 5k head.

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also, my recent research suggests that all 5k heads have the little lugs under one and four spark holes. urs doesnt :/

and also they all appear to have longer cutouts where the 2 small water holes are near the pushrod hollows. urs just has the std 4k type.

Edited by rebuilder86
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Hi Jeremy,

                   I gather you are referring to these clearances ?

5a5f485d57acf_WaterJacketsClearance.thumb.JPG.add9d959168eefb0e0cd83a975abb789.JPG

 

The 3K & 4k engines shared the same cylinder bore diameter of 75mm.

That's why heads could be so easily swapped between them.

The 5K bore was 5.5mm greater in diameter, at 80.5mm.

There was enough area there to fit 3K & 4K heads, to a 5K block, as long as there was not deteriation of the water jacket openings in the head, like yours, which had corroded almost under the area where the cylinder edge seal is, on the head gasket.

image.png.d438430d66db7b0b9aef7895b9437463.png

 

Funny, I checked my 4K-U with dished pistons tonight, & the head on it, has identification no: 12.  That number doesn't appear in the Wiki listings, either.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

Edited by Banjo
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Hi Jeremy,

                   The 5K heads do have a "lug" under the edge of the no: 1 & no: 4 spark plug recesses.

DSC00377small_LI.thumb.jpg.e4c4900f618be7ebde8395938da85a49.jpg

This particular head, which is on a 5K, I am about to fit my experimental COP conversion,, has head identification no: 24.  This number does appear in the Rollaclub WiKi.

image.thumb.png.a6d14fd3344a56c45f1fea438afe87ff.png

According to the WiKi, a head with number 24, should not have lugs under 1 & 4 spark plugs.  Not sure whether this is a misprint, as the pic above definitely depicts lugs & no: 24. There were apparently 5Ks produced from the factory with dished pistons, & some with flat top pistons.  Haven't had the head off this engine yet to see what it has got.  Probably could pull a spark plug out, bring the piston to the top of the bore, & put an bright individual LED, soldered to two thin wires, down the hole, to throw some light on the subject. (no pun intended)

P.S.  So I'm not sure whether all 5K heads had the lug under no: 1 & no: 4 spark plugs, or whether there are 5K heads floating around, without the lugs in the casting. Maybe someone on this forum, can confirm this piece of info.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

Edited by Banjo
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so hang on a minute werent u enquiring about the 95 stamped one before? 

ok sorry just reread ur posts i thought u were saying this 95 one WAS a 5 k head.

I am off to cebu for my flight in 2 weeks. when I'm there i will visit the k engine holy grail spares yard in the old city and see if i can find any heads with either of these casting marks. ill take lots of photos.

its a "shop" on the street with lots and lots of toyota motors ripe for the stripping. but the white skin makes the price about tripple what a local would pay so I'm just enquiring at this stage.

Edited by rebuilder86
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I just had a quick look around my garage, at a few heads I have here, to see what head numbers are on them.

DSC00383.thumb.JPG.fb3345616d602238993ca60b7283e9b1.JPG

Stock standard 4K-c, which was one of my early engines, that only came out, because it was emitting a bit too much smoke. Has ID no: 3.

DSC00382.thumb.JPG.bbee03abd94e31f90b716435c43406e4.JPG

4K engine which I've never had the head off. Has ID no: 59.

DSC00384.thumb.JPG.fbc94282193a2b4c1e9e6c9ddcec7336.JPG

Hmm !  This number does not appear in the WiKi, but all numbers starting with 24010, appear to be big port 3K heads, so might be very useful. 

This head also has the big round Welsh plug / bung, in the back of the head, which I believe is a signature feature of a "big port" head.

DSC00385.thumb.JPG.c1a5f4c460a12fee172bcd87665960cb.JPG

Someone gave me this engine, which had a spun big end bearing, & had been left outside to rust.  I think the engine had been done up before failure, so it was in fairly good condition, other than the crank journal issue.

Block is currently being turned into a coffee table for my "man cave" (one day), with a glass top.  Ah La Top Gear ! 

Here is another one I found, with no: 5 ID number, which is a stock 3K head.

DSC00386.thumb.JPG.47e5d0b164511b55d399039ac1f2d89a.JPG

This next one, has ID no: 20, indicating a 4K head.

DSC00389.thumb.JPG.f9377be8050b22082eafed46aab63638.JPG

So basically, out of all the 8 off heads floating around here, I can identify all, except this no: 95, which I will hopefully get to the bottom of.

Cheers Banjo

 

Edited by Banjo
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