rebuilder86

Oil filter w anti siphon, no such thing

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So I'm back in oz, and ive discovered tgat all this talk about a special filter with a special valve is all horseahit. All filters have anti drainback valve, some rubber, some silicone (better). But none of rycos filters on the shelf at supershit had an anti syphon valve as illustrated in their technical bulletin here: (page 2)

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.rycofilters.com.au/library/news/oil_filter_valves_technical_tips.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiwwefq37nZAhUGpJQKHXdJC8wQFjACegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1jIg5nE8qrCLEBwnZnVYLe

Not a single filter had the anti syphon valve, and not a single filter doesnt have the anti drainback valve. Theyre all ezactly the same as the one i have in my engine now which suffers frim 5-8 second oil pressure delay after a cold start and the filter is always empty when i do a filter change (cold).

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Why would you want an oil filter with anti siphoning valve, when your 4K filter is installed vertically. Siphoning valves are only required when oil in the filter can run out, because the filter is installed either horizontally, or inverted.

Cheers Banjo 

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Dunno, but when we bought The Girls KE70 the filter emptied every night and rattled the bearings every morning.  I had to change them later.

I thought that was lack of drainback valve, but maybe it was a lack of anti-syphon valve.

I suppose we need both in a 4K with the filter upside down. Lack of either will let the oil drain out but more will drain from the inlet side back to the sump. The outlet side will only drain back to cam level.

I think your anti-drainback valve might not be sealing jeremy.

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Weirdest thread in a while.

Did you cut open a series of different oil filters?

I dont get what the beef is, lots of filters have some feature to stop oil evacuation after an engine stops running.  Ive always had oil in the filter even on a 4age where it sits sideways.  Maybe on a mass produced object there is some percentage that are faulty as you cant test every oil filter you sell for obvious reasons.

Lucky for me 2az filter sits the right way up so it cups the oil nicely, and is as low as the sump anyhow.

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All filters have the anti drain back valve in the inlet. I was led to believe, some time ago, on this forum, that i may need the anti syphon valve aswell.

This prompted me to research into it, and found that oil can still drain out through the outlet due to the height of the oil in the filter, compared to the height of the crankshaft and its oil galleries. This is why its called anti syphin. Go check out the link and read it, its for inverted filter layout, like our 4k, not upright layouts. It doesnt mean "anti syphoning out the top of the filter".

Not sure what ur point was banjo. Anti syphon is exactly what we need. 

I think ive found one now. The only one in the ryco range with the anti syphon valve. Ryco z421. I'm going to get itbn see if it helps!

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The way this bulletin reads, you'd believe anti-syhponing valves are pretty common.

http://www.rycofilters.com.au/library/news/1181284334_document_ryco_tech_bulletin_-_may_mail_out1.pdf

There was a lot of discussion along these lines, back a few years ago, on Rollaclub.

https://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/71334-oil-filter/

I've always used the Ryco Z68, & never had a cold start up rattle yet.   I do notice there is a squatter version Ryco, with P/N Z158, for presumably low delay start ups.

Ryco recommend them for the 4K--U & 4K-J engines.

I've always presumed, after reading the Ryco website, that the Z68 has anti-drain & anti syphoning valves.  I must cut one open, next time I do an oil change.

This is from the FRAM website, about the various valves in the lubrication system, & what each one does.

5a915c919e7d4_FRAMOilFilterValves.thumb.JPG.d504124accc694eae3d7cacd9b9a2717.JPG

Cheers  Banjo

Edited by Banjo

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I use genuine toyota oil filters in my 4k. No issues with cold start rattle, but there was when I tried an aftermarket filter from supercheap.

Sure, genuine is costly, but I have too much work and money tied up in my engine to not pick the best option.

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Yep, it took me a long time to realise, but its the one thing on a car I always buy factory now.

Luckily one Toyota filter fits 4K, 4AGE & 3SGE!

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Ubdont have to cut one open. U can see both from the opening. Antidrain is the ring around the outside (inlet) and the antisyphon is the little valve immediately inside the centre outlet, and if it has one, u wouldnt be able to see the filter material. The latter is not on any ryco z68. So that thread u posted has some incorrect info in there.

As for that little bit of info on this thread about all the  valve types. That description of the anti syphon clears it up. I am loosing oil from the filter every night with a rubber anti drain valve. I will try this Z421 and let u know how it goes, in three months when I'm back in philippines.

It could just be that all the cheap filters we get there are just junk and have crap anti drain valves, but when i took the filter off one morning, it was empty and so was the outlet side pipe on the engine. So that kind of indicates that i may be loosing oil through the outlet side. ie, syphoning, similar to what that FRAM info talks about with the turbo return line sucking the oil out.

Speaking of which, i recently got an old 1999 ford transit turbo diesel and the filter is mounted sideways. Il be doing an oil and filter change soon so when i do il see if i can cut it up n take a photo of the valve.

Heres what an anti syphon valve looks like. Look in the middle.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkKyn8BesuKDpTqFs7QII

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Unfortunately supershit doeant stock the Z421 so there are no oil filters on the shelf with an anti syphone valve.

This is the std 4k one, Z68. (see pic)

U can see right through to the filter media. I suspect there is enough clearance in the crankshaft oil galleries for oil to just exit through the engine.

I will have to special order a Z421, but not until i hav confirmation that they really do have both valves.

IMG20180225112544.jpg

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Hi Jeremy,

                  I looked into this by emailing Ryco Customer Support over the weekend.  They were very quick in getting back to me this morning.  You are quite right that the good olde Ryco Z68, does not have an anti-syphoning valve, fitted as standard..

I also suspect, like you, that lots of cheap oil filters have anti-drain valves that eventually leak, as it is only a large flap, which could distort over time, and the material the flap valve is made of, could vary from one manufacturer to another.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

We have a number of members who have suffered from oil drain back, & syphoning, after the engine has been shut down, resulting in rattling startups. Most of the 3K, 4K, & 5k engines our cars are fitted with, use the Z68 oil filter. My question is this. Does the Z68 have an anti syphoning valve fitted, as standard ? If not, what other Ryco oil filter, has an anti-syphoning valve, that would be suitable for the 3K - 5K engines, as a replacement for the Z68 ?
I can find no where on the Ryco site, where it lists the valves that are fitted to each model filter.
Is this info readily available ?
Many thanks in advance.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thank you for your enquiry. 

The Z68 Spin-on Oil Filter is fitted with an Anti-Drain back valve but NOT an Anti-Syphon valve.

Having compared the Z68 with other Spin-on Oil filters in our catalogue we can confirm that the Z423 Oil Filter has both an Anti-Drain back valve and  an Anti-syphon valve.

 The Z423 has very similar dimensions to the Z68 as well,  identical filter media and thread.

 Having not tested the Z423 for use on Toyota 3-5K engines we cannot recommend the fitment, thus any customer  fitting this filter is  at their own risk and will be not covered   under the Ryco warranty.

 

Thank You

Kind Regards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryco, have suggested the Z423, which is very similar to the Z421 you have found.

I'll have a look for a Z423 this afternoon, at SCA, when I'm in town.

I had a new Ryco Z418 oil filter on the shelf in the garage, for my daughter's 2004 Echo.  I had a look down the outlet hole in the middle, & it doesn't  have an anti-syphoning valve, as you can see the inside of the filter element clearly.

However, on the 2004 Echo, the filter is mounted very very low on the motor, such that you have to lie under the car to fit it.  The outlet for the filter points upwards, (not inverted), so probably doesn't really need an anti-syphoning valve. 

DSC00484small.thumb.jpg.44848631a09593ece067acff7fffc044.jpg

Ryco didn't answer my query regarding a listing of their oil filters, with which valves are fitted, so will follow that up with them.  I couldn't find anywhere on the net, where manufacturers list what valves were fitted to which filters.  As they all use a universal identification system, it is possible, I suppose, that one manufacturer could include a particular valve in a particular model, and another manufacturer may not.  Needs a bit more research.

Jeremy; where did you find the info about the Z421, that it has an anti-syphoning valve fitted ?  I'd be interested to know.

Will advise, if I hear any more from Ryco Customer Service.   If I can get hold of a Z423 today, I'll fit it & try it out, as my Rolla is about ready for an oil change.

Cheers Banjo


 

Edited by Banjo

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siiiiiick. u champion.
haha i was so close to emailing them actually. but the way u worded it to them like, representing a community; is brilliant.

I found it by searching for this text string on google 
"ryco oil filter with anti syphon valve"

Page 2 of results for me had this summary text..
"

www.alfaclubvic.org.au › ... › Technical › 900 Series (Alfasud, Alfasud Sprint, 33)
O
ct 29, 2013 - Re: Oil filter for 1988 33 1.7ie 8V. « Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 12:24:43 AM ». $55! What filter was that? Ryco lists a Z421 which has an anti siphon valve. Z89A is the same but without ASV. These are the big filters. There are small filters that match up also Z418 (without ASV), Z614 (with ASV). The list ..."

http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=11524.0
Then i checked the ryco cataloge adn found the dimensions were good enough for me.

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Called into SCA this afternoon.  They had no Z421 oil filters on the shelf, so I couldn't open up a box, Jeremy, & have a look down the inside, to confirm it has an anti-syphoning valve built in.

However, they did have 1 off Z423 on the shelf, which is the one Ryco suggested this morning, as a replacement for the Z68, if we wanted the addition of an anti-syphoning valve.

The price was only $ 5.00 ea., so I grabbed it.   I checked it out in the workshop, once I got home, & it is in fact identical to the the Z68 in all dimensions. Height, O/S diameter, & thread.

Even the sealing rubber ring is exactly the same diameter.  So this looks like the oil filter to go for, if anyone has start up "rattling" issues, that need addressing.

On top of that, the Z423 was cheaper than the standard Z68.

All Ryco boxes advise on the outside of the box that the oil filter inside has an anti-drain back valve fitted, but no mention is made of the anti-syphoning valve.

I asked the tech guys at SCA if they had additional reference to Ryco filters, as to which models were fitted with anti-syphoning valves.  They did not, but were interested enough to ring Ryco head office in Sydney.  However they had closed for the day.  They will ring Ryco again tomorrow. 

Somewhere, there must be a listing, but I fear it is in the internals of Ryco, & we will not be able to get our hands on it.

Cheers Banjo 

 

 

Edited by Banjo

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Jeremy,

              I did notice when I was going through all the listings on the Ryco website that all references to the Z421, all related to Fiat & Alfa, & a few other European cars.  Toyota never got a mention.  Wonder what the difference is between Z421 & Z423 ?

Cheers Banjo

P.S.  we will get to the bottom of this, but meantime, it looks like the Z423 is the way to go. Better try & grab a few in Perth, before you head back to Cebu.

 

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Yeh mate i tried the parts guys at SCA also but they didnt even have the ability to search for a text string in their product database.

Z423 it is!!

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