EFI Conversion Video on Corolla

[Banjo]

Came across this video, as you do when there is a pandemic in progress, & you have time to chill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2x25ga1MSg

It's from California, in the USA, & is the first in, a long series, (Not as long as Project Binky !  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHvBHWBzzB7NyU5tIiEZHBg), but shines a light, on a different approach to fitting EFI to carburetor engines.

The Holley Sniper system, is expensive, by Australian standards, but is relatively simple, to implement. 

Holley also have an ignition module, that mates to the EFI carburetor replacement device, so that you finish up with a pretty easy system refit.

P.S.  Got a bit bored during the rerunning of fuel lines section, from back to front, but somehow, the video was infectious, & I kept watching.  Note:  The background music might put you to sleep ?

P.S.S.  Oh by the way,   .  . . . . .  these guys have never heard of our product "Start You Barstard"

P.S.S.S.  I think project Binky is up to about Episode 30 now.  I'm starting to get worried, they may not get this project finished, before I depart this planet.

Cheers  Banjo 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Banjo

[wenisman]

What a great video series! its strangely addictive viewing. Strangely reminds me of the early days of MCM where they were working in martys mums driveway.  

However I was actually doing some research on EFI for my ke26 wagon and I originally saw the avenger series which looked more suited to the older corollas, its a little smaller and the kit comes with the fuel pumps and most oft he required parts but had a separate ecu to control it all so you can switch to a haltech or something later if you wanted a nice upgrade path for future mods:

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/avenger_efi/avenger_2bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-200

 

i was looking for ways to have a proper cam angle sensor and there are some nice parts out there, however most of them don't fit. Once we are out of lockdown I will continue the machining course and see if i can replicate this (in a smaller package) cutting the number of teeth down to 12 or even 16 means it can fit in a smaller package and still meet the hal pickup requirements:

https://www.stinger-performance.com/store/cas-cam-angle-sensor-conversion-tfi

its tough finding something small that can adapt the ke2x dizzy to be used in an efi system

 

[Banjo]

Hi Geoff,

               Yeah, the  home style EFI conversion video was a bit addictive.  Glad to see there is some else on Rollaclub, who is really interested in EFI conversion on a K Series engine.

I've played with all sorts of triggering systems, over the years.

Haltech Video on Crank & Camshaft Toothed Degree Wheels

The simplest thing you can produce, if you need a distributor "degree wheel", with missing tooth, is build one yourself, using an old Corolla dizzy, & locking it up, & adding a Nissan degree disk.

Here's one I made a few years ago.

The trick is to use the Bosch dizzy, rather than the Denso dizzy.  The Bosch dizzy, fitted to many later K Series motors, was physically bigger in diameter, & can fairly easily squeeze in the mechanism, from a later model Nissan dizzy.  The Nissan dizzy, has an optical sensor, & a number of different stainless steel disks available, including missing tooth.

 

 

Here is another setup I found on the net, that someone was adapting to his engine.  Don't really know, from where it originates.  Mitsubishi ?  Nissan ?

Sometimes easier to mechanically adapt something, that already works, to your application.  Some one on here might recognise it ?

Really easy to lock up the Rolla dizzies, by taking out all the springs & bob weights etc.

There is a guy in Sydney somewhere, who can laser cut or punch out these disks, in any format you need or want.  I know Adrian (Nesta/Rollaclub) got one a few years ago, when he was playing around with 7K EFI systems.

I might have a couple of S.S. disks here lying around, if you want to have a go, at making one yourself.

Several months ago, I raised a query on here, that I heard that Mazda produced a EFI Carby type thingo, on one of the 1300 cc engines, that might well adapt to our engines, being of similar capacity.  I believe it is a Mazda B5-ME series motor, with EGI SPI.

I have yet to see one in the flesh, & haven't had time to crawl the wrecking yards, looking for one.  Like the Kia Corolla video, it would be a relatively simple way to add EFI to a 3K or 4K engine.  From memory, it apparently takes the simple bolt on format of the Holley conversion, but without the "smarts".  I presume Mazda had a little "box" to control it.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Banjo

[wenisman]

Hey banjo,

    That's awesome information and thanks for the help. 

 

    I was also looking at something like this from yoshifab 

https://yoshifab.com/store/billet-redblock-dsm-cas-adapter.html

It's a small/short Mitsubishi cas on top and so in theory they can adjust the adapter to suit any engine, I've emailed asking if it can be adapted for the mighty 3k engine and I'll let you know what they say

Otherwise I was looking at the throttle body system however with the new intake manifold, injectors and ecu it's an expensive operation. It makes the Holley actually seem cheap in comparison, and it like Holley make an small bore application now too

[Banjo]

Hi Geoff,

               Another option for you, would be to purchase a Tridon Crankshaft Position Sensor replacement module, & fit it to the Bosch dizzy housing, that were fitted to 4K engines.

Tridon make a large range.  SuperCheap Auto can order them in for you.

Once you have the internal dimensions, of the gutted Bosch dizzy housing, you could then go through the Tridon options, based on size, to narrow it down.

Typical Module Configuration

 

You might like to look through this thread, which has taken a slightly different direction, to obtaining that perfect stable crankshaft positioning signal.

https://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/74084-distributorless-5k-engine/#comments

TAZ (Si) produced a Dizzy with a loverly spun aluminium cover a few years back, that I believe he might have fitted a Nissan CAS therein.

Drop him a PM, & find out what he used.

 

Cheers Banjo 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Banjo

[Taz_Rx]

I used SR20 internals in the k dizzy housing. Looks just like the module pictured above.

Never had the slightest issue with it since fitting. 

[wenisman]

Hey Taz,

    thats awesome, and certainly great news that its reliable. I assume you fitted it to the bigger bosch diff housing? what ecu were you running? however i might see if i can grab the parts and hack up a new dizzy i bought off ebay and make it fit as yours looks like a nice solution. 

 

    I was very intrigued how banjos water pump conversion was working out as well as that sounds like it has legs but you would still need the crank position sensor so the ecu know when it hits tdc. you can always a stripped down dizzy for the crank position and have the water pump as the crank angle. 

 

 

[Banjo]

Hi Geoff,

                I'm almost certain that TAZ used the Bosch dizzy housing, looking at his picture. None of those Tridon CAS modules would fit in the 3K/4K Denso dizzies, which were much smaller.

The CAS used was from a Nissan SR20 4 cylinder engine, which was very popular.

Quote

you can always a stripped down dizzy for the crank position and have the water pump as the crank angle. 

The CAS gives you one or two signals, depending on the type of disk used.

Some of the disks have many evenly spaced slots circled around the edge, plus a second single inner slot.

The inner single slot tells the ECU where the crankshaft is in its 720 deg rotation. The outer slots are then counted from that point onwards, to time everything.

There are some disks with only one circle of slots, but usually has 2 or 3 missing slots.  The ECU detects the ",missing slots", & uses this as the reference point on the crankshaft.

Most ECUs start counting from this point, & usually add the 2 or 3 missing slots to the count, to work out where the crankshaft is.

Quote

you can always a stripped down dizzy for the crank position and have the water pump as the crank angle. 

 

 You wouldn't need the "fuel pump" signal, as that information, is provided by the "missing teeth", or the single inner slot.

If you are doing a machining course, it should be easy to fabricate a simple extension to the bottom end of the Bosch dizzy, to mount the stainless steel disk.

P.S. If you purchase a SR20 CAS, it will probably not come with the plug for the external wiring.  You'll have to source these on-line some where.  eBay has a good selection.

Send us a link to show which dizzy you purchased from ebay.  Need to make sure it is the right one, before you go cutting it up.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Banjo

[kickn5k]

On 4/29/2020 at 9:50 AM, Banjo said:

 

The Holley Sniper system, is expensive, by Australian standards, but is relatively simple, to implement. 

 

It's also not much better ECU tech wise than an early 90's dos operated haltech either. Not that, it is essentially a bad thing, as long as the price replicates that. Look at megasquirt for instance. 

You all missed the boat on my 4g/k motor CAS I've just sold.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by kickn5k

[Taz_Rx]

Yes it was the bigger Bosch housing and I'm running a Wolf 3D v4. But old and antiquated but it does the job. 

My triggering is set up as dual pulse. The stock SR20 disc has 4 slots in it, which get bigger as it goes through a rotation. My ECU uses the leading edge of these slots (So it doesn't vary) with an additional hole I drilled in the disc at #1. That gives the ECU it's 'home' signal. 

Remember when using CAS/ camshaft trigger it's only 360°.

[wenisman]

Hey Banjo, 

    The dizzy i bought was

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electronic-Distributor-Fit-3K-4K-5K-TownAce-KR27-KR41-Starlet-KP61-KP62/282639034758?hash=item41ce996986:g:5swAAOSwwaVeZ1y-

    its cheap enough that its worth the cost in the experimentation and seeing if we can get the little 3k working on efi. ill buy the sr20 sensor and wheel, measure it all before i bring out the hacksaw and see how it goes. i was just wondering if there was a more 'off the shelf' solution, like a small adapter for the existing dizzy however everything looks like custom work. even if the housing is too small i can possibly remove the bulk of body of the distributor and see if i can machine up a new body that just bolts on. as long as the shaft and gears are in tact this is feasible... ill know more once it arrives 

 

    When i was looking at your fuel pump conversion i was thinking that the magnet attached to the diaphram would act like the teeth on the wheel, however because of the way the pump works you couldnt replicate the missing tooth and so the fuel pump would always trigger, lets say 4 times per revolution of the crank with no missing beat per se. However i had a little play with some software and it looks like most sensors can handle both rising and falling voltages as the trigger. so a hall effect sensor on the dizzy can detect the slot in the top of the shaft for the points cap to go into. This would work as the crank position(sometimes called the cam sync) sensor to handle the tdc position and i know haltech 550 can handle both sensors going into it, or you can use the single sensor with the missing tooth. 

 

    but all in all it should be a fun little project, its just taking a while as I'm just starting on this car and so pulling some of the steering and cleaning that whilst thinking about how to make her a daily driver. 

    

 

[Banjo]

Hi Geoff,

                That is a good price, but that particular part is the equivalent of the Denso 3K/4K dizzy, & will definitely not fit any of the optical CAS modules.  The stainless steel disks, all these CAS modules use, are all about the same diameter approximately.

Been there, done that !  You will definitely need a Bosch dizzy housing.  Even with the Bosch dizzy, you need to cut a bit out of the wall, to get the connection to the module. 

I'll see if I can grab a S.S. disk & a 3K Denso dizzy body, out of the shed, later today, & take a picture for you.

The only electronic module that is made specifically for the Denso dizzy, is the Accuspark module, but it is not a CAS; just a set of electronic "points".

Cheers  Banjo

[Taz_Rx]

I like the idea of machining up your own new housing to mount the sensor. That way it doesn't really matter what dizzy you use! I wouldn't do it to the electronic one you bought. Just find some old points dizzy some one will give you for free. All you really need is the bottom end of the shaft (and still able to drive the oil pump) and the boss where the whole thing gets clamped down. Then weld, or a nice machined slip fit housing to go over the top. Fit the sensor (that's not real hard there's pics of it in my build thread, I just made up a little adapter plate) and weld the top of the SR shaft to the bottom of the k one. Raid the pantry for a lid (the spun steel on mine is a coffee jar lid 😂) and you're done!!

[Taz_Rx]

Oh, and I just got an SR cas plug off eBay for like $20...

[kickn5k]

this is the one I've just sold(I bought it off mitch yrs ago). I've also done a couple of 6G mitsi ones to nissan RB and the 4G to FJ20 for my old man.

Not hard with basic machining knowledge, although you need to be pretty accurate with all your measurements. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by kickn5k