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K Series Alternator Upgrade


Banjo

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My KE30 turns 50 next year, & I've planned on giving her a few extra features for her birthday. (I'm only Her second owner)

 

One of the presents is to replace or modify, all lighting, inside & out, with LED lights.  Headlights are pretty easy, as you can easily source "H4 bulb compatible" 4 sided LED Hi intensity lights bulbs.  I've ordered a set this week, so that will be the first step.

 

One of the best things you can do to an olde Rolla, is increase the capacity of the battery & alternator, although replacing the original crappy load bearing wiring, with cable a lot thicker, would be a close second.  (I've already done that)

 

The original alternators fitted to the early KEs, were all in the 30-35-40 ampere capacity.   I replaced my alternator with a reconditioned 85 ampere model, out of an early Hilux, years ago, & it has been a great asset.  It was very straight forward, & just needed a few washers on the long bolt that attaches the alernator to the engine bracket, to allow the pullies to line up perfectly.

 

As I will be putting a 5K in it, once my EFI experiment is completed, I was thinking of maybe upgrading to something like 100A capacity.  I searched on here, & found Evan did an upgrade, 12 or 13 years ago, where He fitted the internals of a VL Commodore alty, into the frame of the original Denso Corolla frame.  

 

Has anyone on here experimented, & found a late model commonly available 100A alternator, that can be fitted to a K Series engine, without too much alteration, or fabrication.

 

Alternator design has improved greatly over the past few decades, so a current 100A capacity alternator, is not necessarily, any greater in size, than the original 30-35-& 40 ampere originals fitted to K series engines.

 

Any suggestions, gratefully received.

 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

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Hi Si,

          Thanks for that info.  There are a lot of Commodore, & other Holden models; that appear to have used that particular Bosch alternator, so they are certainly commonly available, as either genuine Bosch, or several aftermarket brands/makes.

 

You wouldn't buy a second hand one, when the aftermarket ones are fairly inexpensive, with 5 year warranties.

 

I did however notice that they come in 100A, 120A, & 140A models.

 

I also noticed that there are some models, they use the multi groove ribbed flat belt, rather than the standard V belt.

 

image.png.80619d273c207ff02296fe4bcc7d3e7c.png

 

 

 

image.png.6a17c297de978564de6852e76ed6c66b.png

 

I'm not sure whether the 140A version of this alternator, used the flat belt exclusively, due to the possible higher torque required to turn it.

 

Did you have to modify the pulley on yours, to fit it to your engine ?

 

Definitely seems to be the way to go.

 

Do you happen to have any pics of your alternator installation, on the engine.

 

A picture usually replaces a 1000 words.

 

Cheers

 

Banjo

 

 

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I just used the v belt variant. Pretty primitive adapter bracket that took about half an hour to make. It's just 2 standard bottom bolts with tube over them to take up the difference.

Not at home at the moment, but I'll try and remember to take you some pics in the next few days. 

100a would probably be more than enough if you're not running all the electronic shit I have. Just my coils could (but probably never would) pull 40a.

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Thanks Si; I will look forward to those pics.

 

The H4 LED replacement head light bulbs arrived yesterday, & I couldn't wait until it got dark, to swap one out in the KE30, & see what the difference was.  At a bit over $ 30 for a pair, it is only an experiment, & if it turns out alright, I might purchase another pair, & fit these to my Wife's Corolla or Echo.

 

image.png.541808986ffa1b2b1da9f83d5f80d1db.png

 

The first thing I noticed, was the very tiny plastic electric fan, at the back end of the assembly, to "keep it cool".  They are tiny, & my first thought was, "I wonder how long they will last".

 

image.png.8cb4595104f0d04b24853d2b9a6b327f.png

 

As the fan is positioned, where the cable harness, would normally plug in, they provide an integral plug & lead.

 

The Existing H4 headlight bulbs I had installed, were 100/90 W models, so they were already pretty bright; but I really wanted that "cool white" LED light, rather than the yellowish light, from a tungsten fillament standard bulb.

 

Changing just one bulb, allowed me to directly compare the light outputs of both bulbs, at the same time.

 

The result was brilliant, & the pic below, doesn't really illustrate how much better the LED bulb is.

 

image.png.38e854cc33e6a9dc533eed0d4a86f021.png

 

So I'll pop the battery out today, so I can get at the LHS bulb; & take it for a run tonight, out somewhere, where there are no street lights.

 

Then, I'll start looking at "LED-anizing", all the other parking, stop & indicator lamps.

 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Banjo
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Si,

         The aftermarket Holden 308 alternator arrived today.  A quick play at lunchtime, indicates it will fit; but it's going to be a small gap possibly, between the back of the alternator, & the front cross member/engine mount support.  Maybe the alternator block bracket on the 5K motor can be modified; but probably, will be easier in the long run, to fabricate a new bracket, from scratch, to attach to the block.

 

Would love some pics of how you got yours to mount OK.

 

Actually, I might work it all out, on another K motor, I have on an engine stand, as it is a bit hard, down there, under the exhaust header, where it is cramped.

 

Actually fitted a 30cm lg LED driving light bar, over the weekend, just above the front number plate.  KE30 won't know itself now, at night. 

 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

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Hi Si,

         I took a quick look at the alternator today, when it arrived, & my first thought was; this is going to be tight. Tight it is, but it does fit in the conventional space, on the same mounting access, as the original 30-40A alternator.  It will require a custom made bracket, to attach to the block; but that is no real big issue, as it is simply a flat thick bar, with a couple of brackets off it.  I took the cast mounting bracket off the block, & reversed it, & turned it upside down.  Using the original long mounting pivot bolt, which is about 11cm long, I was able to mount/hold it in the final position.

 

image.png.76e589e2d42537fdd07df3f2f649bf21.png

 

The clearance at the rear of the alternator, is a bit tight, but workable.  I don't want to modify the alternator mountings in any way, in case it has to be changed out, in the future.  The pulleys line up perfectly, with a staight edge, but I might have to make up an angled arm, to allow for fan belt tensioning setting.

Just need to get hold of a 14-15 cm long 10mm dia. bolt, & with a few washers in that gap between the end on the cast bracket &  alternator mount, I should be able to run it tomorrow, & check it all electrically.

I was concerned earlier, that it might finish up, with the rear of the alternator being too close to the cross member & engine mount.  However, I discovered that the front cross members, vary from model to model, in this area. The cross member supporting the 5K engine, on which this "lash up", was tried; has very straight up & down sides, where it supports the engine mount. Others I have here, taper outwards as they descend from the engine mount pad.

 

 I'll post some pics, once I've got it all going.

 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

Edited by Banjo
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Just awaiting the extra long 10mm dia. pivot bolt to arrive tomorrow, so I can lock this 120A Holden alternator in place, & try it out.

 

I said earlier, I was planning on replacing all the filament bulbs on the KE-30, with LEDs.

 

Now my rear tail light clusters are in pretty good nick, but the amber lens, was slightly fadded; but certainly not at the stage where you could get nabbed.  I had seen some 21W amber, auto bayonet bulbs on ebay, & thought if I pop them in, & it will improve the colour output of the turn indicators.  Wrong !

 

I even got my wife to come out, at night in the dark, & compare the results with a standard filament bulb, & the amber LED bulb, in case I was going nuts.

 

The amber LED bulb, was definitely duller, with less colour than with the standard filament bulb.

 

Now, it's a long time since I was in a school physics class, where we refracted white light into it's colours, but I figured it was something to do with colour wavelengths.

 

So I quickly Googled; & sure enough, I wasn't seeing things . . . .

 

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/blog/amber-or-white-led-behind-an-amber-lens-with-video/

 

So apparently, it is a white light behind an amber lens, or an amber light behind a clear lens; as many modern cars now have.

 

So I'm going to get hold of a cool white bayonet LED bulb & try that.

 

A bit of futher research indicated that there are pressure  sprays specifically produced, to improve the amber colour of turn indicator lenses, that have faded.

I've yet to look & see if they are commonly available here in Oz.

 

SCA have one, but it only appears to be for red tail & stop lights.

 

image.png.0b4727f56442982a9f681acf1403798a.pngimage.png.0bdfcf148e61ff8d4ec1a79a62421da6.png

 

Has anyone else on here, tried what I've described, & come up with the same result ?

 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

Edited by Banjo
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That's unsurprising Banjo, LEDs are very high in blue light and low in yellow/orange. Even the longer-wavelength 'warm' LEDs are still more blue than the old tungstens.

Horses for courses really, they probably don't put out enough of the red end of the spectrum to make the dye worthwhile either. That will filter out all of the blue end & drop the overall lumens. They use a phosphor coating on household bulbs to drop blue wavelengths into more orange for a white light.

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If you look at the pic I took at night, (a page back), where I only changed one head light over to a white LED, & left the other as a standard fillament bulb, you can see the "blue" in the LED light, & the orange in the fillament bulb. Basically both putting light out, at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

image.png.8287075034ab128af505aa1421588c26.png

 

Cheers  Banjo

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My 150mm 10mm dia. bolts arrived, so I headed to the shed last night, anxious to see whether this alternator will be permanent fixture, on my 5K, instead of the 35-40 Ampere rated one, it came with, originally.

 

image.thumb.png.3d8611f07c9a62718eb16d2720acf262.png 

 

The picture above indicates it can be accomodated & sits well, without fouling the front cross member, at it's rear. There are a four very long clamping bolts on the alternator assembly, which could do with a trim down, as they stick out, at the rear.  

 

It is reasonably close to the exhaust manifold, but I will also have to check in on my 4K engine, which has a 4 into 1 exhaust header.  If it is too close, it might require a small "heat shield" fitted in between  alternator & exhaust header.

 

The pivot mounting worked out well.  The pivot mounting boss on this 120A alternator, is quite substantial.  This 120A  alternator requires a 10mm dia. pivot bolt, which is the same as the original alternator, & it's engine block mounting adaptor; so all good there.

 

image.thumb.png.5786aa6b7aa137d0e5f4269d05c62ddb.png

 

As I mentioned earlier, I initially, took the original block alternator mounting bracket; & reversed it, & turned it upside down (see above)

 

With a 200mm staight edge steel ruler, I lined up the fromt pulley faces, then measured the gap, between the alternator mounting pivot boss & the front of the  block mounting bracket front land., which was about 12-13mm.  You can see highlighted by the centre arrow above, that I added a spacer & washer there, so the pivot bolt, could be tightened up.  The pivot bolt I obtained was 150mm long, but doesn't provide enough length to fit a flat & spring washer, behind the locking nut.  I will probably see if I can get a 160mm long bolt. Meanwhile, the nut has a bit of Locktite, on it's thread.

 So all was looking very encouraging, until I tried to fit a fan belt adjustment bracket, between the bottom water pump mounting bolt & the point on the top of the alternanor.  The two points were out of alignment, completely, as the original curved adjustment arm has a 'factory original" kink in it.  However, after measuring the misalignment & the kink offset in the bracket, they turned out to be  almost the same.  About 10 minutes work, in the big vice, & a heavy hammer & anvil, & the original adjustment bracket; no longer has a kink in it.  When fitted, the two lined up perfectly, without even needing a spacer washer or the like.

 

However, It was not done with me yet !

 

When I set the belt tension, the top of the bracket literally just touched the outlet of the water pump, where the bottom radiator hose connects.

 

 image.thumb.png.af1b4c281f17188176e85cef891fdd93.png

 

image.thumb.png.8fa35f0b73e011fffbaa4aab210c5ec7.png

 

The bottom of the aduster arm bracket; also just clears the fan blade on the front of the alternator.

However, I have a plan, which I will try tonight, or over the weekend.  If cut out the middle offending section of the curved bracket, & then weld the two ends, joined by a piece of round steel rod, then the to & bottom clearance issues will hopefully be eliminated.

 

If that all works, I'll then fire the engine up, & see how it all works out, in practice.

 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

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Sorry for very late reply. Was just looking for a pic of something else and found this in my phone. 

As I said, pretty rudimentary.... but it works. The way this works give you a little 'up and down' adjustment as well, so I didn't have any issues with clearance between bracket and water pump outlet. 

You've probably created a little bit of the interference by slightly raising the alternator when you flipped the original bracket. 

Screenshot_20230331-142200_Photos.thumb.jpg.b2fbb68c5380b405891cfe5cfeafab2e.jpg

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Hi Si,

           Thanks for that.  I can work out, what the bottom half of your pic represents, but for the life of me, I can't work out what the top half of the photo reepresents, & what that is in the background.

 

I'm guessing the bottom pivot point for your 100A alternator bottom pivot point, is further away/out from the block ??

 

So the original cast block bracket, was attached to the block, as originally intended ?  Not reversed, or fitted upside down.

 

I'm starting to wonder whether your upgraded alternator mounting pivot arrangement, is identical to mine, or not.'

 

Does the bottom end pivot arrangement of your uopgraded alternator, look like this ?

 

image.png.60fbcc2878261a6a6e39eac3c119e71a.png

 

Cheers

 

Banjo

Edited by Banjo
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