CNL

When is your next round and are you planing on competing or just going to focus on some tuning for now?

For some reason I can't upload Pic's and they don't let me use Photo bucket either so I can't get pic's up but send me a PM with your e-mail and I'll send them direct if you want them and if you can post them up go for it.

I'm back driving imports an R34 GTT Skyline haven't had it on track yet as cash is tight and the diff is flogged out. Once I get that sorted I'll get it out there It's still registered so I drive it on the weekends and it keeps me entertained. They have been pushing the VY/BA thing for a few years now and I'll believe it when I see it. There is no way I can see them introducing the new era vehicles dealing with making them equal parity for a reasonable price that would entertain the "entry level" category theme and still give a decent performance advantage over the VT/AU to entice people to upgrade without further compromising reliability that the top state and national guy's are already complaining about from having pushed the VT/AU's past there factory engineering limits. Let alone what this does to anyone who wishes to campaign an EA/VN as their numbers are already low enough as it is. I feel your pain with the power issue just keep working at it the satisfaction of improving your craft and engineering performance is well worth it!! Just remember if your not having fun and your out of touch with those in the category you can always drop back to sprints and whoop ass while your waiting for your performance modifications if that's enough to put a smile on your face while your spending your hard earned isn't that what its all about. I'll post some exhaust pics when I can figure out how to host Pic's again to give you an idea of a good setup as that's the game I'm in. As for the cam timing I never played with mine as it was pretty close when I got the car but from what others have said when tuning the VT's have a small window where there happy and then power just falls off it just takes time to find it.

To be honest mate your doing mighty well considering the lack of HP and minimal budget to spend on development. I have recently sold my saloon car due to not having the funds to compete or to further develop the car and have gone back to sprints for the time being. I noticed I was down on power when I was at 230HP @ wheels that was putting me just outside the top 10 at a national meet with me having a home track advantage. When I made the jump to 250HP it was a different car I had to make a few changes to lines and setup to make the most of the upgrade and it put me into the top 5 easily and able to at least defend if I clawed my way into the top 3 at the state level. I know for sure the top national guys are above the 250HP @ wheels mark and they are also dead on min weight which I could never get down to. So to even be in the running with sub 200HP is a good effort bump up that HP and some more seat time and you'll be up there for sure. You have to remember the top national guys I would assume spend 30 to 50k per season to secure a chance at having a car capable of winning and run all rounds. Hell I spent 12-15k per season for 2 state seasons getting my car and race craft up-to speed.

Completed first set of headers just went with 1 1/2" primarys with long length for low end tq. On dyno beat pacemakers upto 3k and could have gone better with more tuning. Then equalised and lost out top end by 10hp at 5k and held station out to limiter. End result great street header as is, with step to 1 3/4" like I run on my car it seems to only equal pacemaker top end and pick up a bit of low end to mid tq over pacmaker. But the cost to make the header with merge collectors mandrel bends and water jet cut flanges out ways the minimal low end gain. Just buy std 1 1/2" pacemakers. FTW.

Yea they let me run and said get it for next meeting ive run 2 nationals 2 full qld seasons and leased my car at wakefield nationals and still no fuel fitting if your not smashing lap times and looking suspicious there happy to just take your entry fee and bump up the number of cars in the field.

Yes definitely use a cross over pipe every Dual exhaust system I have made has one and you almost always benefit from fitting one to any dual system. Standard 1.5" primary pacemakers are the best off shelf header for VT's in our category most people run them, once I finish my headers ill do a write up and post it on my website www.macsmufflers.com I'm confident I can make a triple step header to out shine the pacemakers for not much extra cost. BTW I had an AU falcon in the shop today with one of the fuel fittings its literally just T into the fuel line with some speed flow fittings and run it to the Jiffy Fuel Sampling fitting some ware accessible in the engine bay. both the commodores I'm making systems for aren't running them apparently the fittings are not cheap a couple hundred dollars or something.

I would but I don't run one only time they checked fuel and had an issue was at nationals. I do have another commodore at my shop at the moment ill check to see if he is running the fitting and if he minds me putting up photos. Also on the exhaust front here's a tip dual 2 1/4" for best low end torque. I'm currently designing a custom headder to out perform the pacemakers most people run and should be on the dyno in the next few weeks to prove it.

Congrats on the class win. Should see some movement on those times in the new year with the new motor. FYI on the gearbox generally we are having trouble with braking gearboxes on these motors when tuned and pushing around 250 atw HP with the control slicks. I went through 3 wrecker gearboxes in 3 rounds before I took them all to a gearbox shop and got 2 reconditioned and strengthened with just the standard ratios, since then I have had 1 box for a full season and I'm waiting for the death rattle about now. seems as long as your mechanically sympathetic and get a good rev match on the downshifts they can last alright. Also found some people are running the pfitsner 5th ratio as it slots on and some have also ground off the second gear and milled the phitsner second to weld it onto the standard gear cluster. It allows you to obtain the better ratios without spending the full amount on the gear set I only know as my first box I bought the car with had this done but created a week spot on the second which I found and blew up.

Looks like your making progress how close are you to your first saloon car race? thought I would let you know I just finished another weekend out at Morgan Park Qualified 4th about .2 sec off the front runners and .5 off the leader. buggered the start in race 1 and got caught in a train and melted my power steering system and stuffed the pump and rack similar to your car back on page 10 of this post. Currently I just run the standard P/S cooler in front of my oil cooler but now looking into a larger cooler for the power steering to avoid this happening again. will post what little footage I have when I edit it later.

Here is the last video from the weekend its a bit longer bit more action then the first one.

yea 1.5L will stop the surge I use about 2.5L of E85 for a full lap of Morgan Park so technically I can run out of fuel and complete a lap on the surge tank alone, but your never at full throttle or in high G corners 100% of the time so it will have time to refill on the straights if your running a really light fuel load.

Thanks for watching. I should have the footage of race 2 and 3 up soon I made some errors in race 2 and fall back into the pack so there's more passing footage. good score with the surge tank too i think i paid $130 for my tank and it is only a 3L yours looks a bit bigger than that, well done.

I managed to squeeze a 3L surge tank under the car just so I didn't have to make the firewall. I have finally got around to putting up some footage of my car out at Morgan Park - if you check the channel theirs also some footage of practice in the wet.

Yea the later ecotec's had a slightly larger intake valve when I was looking into the heads we stumbled across it on a VY series 2 head, to be honest though the port is the same and it's only 0.3mm or so bigger I doubt it would have an effect on performance. Just make sure you follow the rule book. saves hassles in the long run. RA30_Group_3k_2012(saloon cars) 9 (A). ENGINE – VT HOLDEN COMMODORE 9.1 (a) The only permitted engine is the V6 Ecotec engine as fitted to the VT Holden Commodore. 9.2 (a) Cylinder head valves: The valves’ seat faces must be re-cut at 45°. Back cutting of the valves is permitted. The maximum inlet valve size is 45.7mm and the exhaust 38.6mm.

You can't do much, but there is definitely power in what you can do and You can't actually use the bigger valves as the rules dictate you have to use the smaller ones and porting/ throating the heads didn't seem to make them work any better either, I think start with the right head casting the one with the crowns on the front and from looking at the rowse heads they are still quite rough, the port throat seems untouched but they play with valve seat angles and the radius of the valve stem. whatever there doing it works well on my car and I couldn't figure out the secrets doing it myself so I just bought it from them!

Funny you mention rowse they are the heads that I just bought worked a treat too just finished a race weekend out at Morgan Park and managed to get my first race win and a 3rd for the overall round. Fair enough the top guys were at the Winton nationals but a wins, a win! and it picked up the performance and put me in the game. I still run a rebuilt standard box and yea the gear set last i checked is $7500 for the phitzner. If you have a track with low speed corners the longer 2nd gear really helps you out I notice the guys with the good gear-set jump me out of the low speed corners but if the corner is fast enough to use 3rd and you get a good run you catch them as they change gears and sometimes it evens out. One thing I can highly recommend is look into a surge tank and a baffled sump, these engines are known to starve the oil pickup in long high g corners and the same rule applies to the fuel system many an engine has died due to lack of oil or fuel leaning out the engine when running anything less than half a tank of fuel. also a good excuse to look at an e85 setup most guys run e85 mainly just to be able to lean on the tune more before detonation than regular pump 98.

This is true, but when you get into a controlled class such as saloon cars the control items is what makes the racing so close and so much fun. what sucks is when you are racing with said components but are still under powered or ill-handling and the guy's that are on the money won't let you in on the secrets. But it's the game we play and you'll keep learning till you get to the front. I've been chasing power for the last couple of months because I'm ok in the corners but lacking down the straights have got some different heads and we'll see how that goes but you ask the lead guys as to what makes these things tick and there all hush hush, I supose they have already spent thousands of dollars and plenty of time learning the secrets they want to keep the edge for as long as they can!!

Sorry still getting use to the forum had the gallery on friends only pic's should work now. as for the sealing generally they like to have the box & Diff out but I'm sure it can be done in car you should ask your local sealer as to weather he will pass it in car. but as far as i know the engine needs to be sealed as it is put together so the sealer can inspect all engine components are per the rules i.e. pistons,cam,ect. talk to you saloon car state manager to find a sealer close to you I'm sure there is one in VIC list of state managers is at http://www.salooncars.net.au.

Hi Again Looks like your ticking off the boxes for your next meet thought I'd get back to you with some pic's of my struts for comparison. I'm running around 4.5deg neg camber and max track width from the k-frame and strut hole placement also lowered considerably by holes and strut top machining. As you can see I'm on the edge of what you can do with the standard strut plate I have considered making a complete replacement plate for better strength but have not got around to designing it yet. good luck with the setup.

That sounds about right. My car is heavily striped but cage is cold drawn and I do have quite a large battery as opposed to those running the tiny ones that look like there out of a jump pack. Those 2 items alone would get me close to 1450 but I'm not keen on changing cages though. unfortunately regulations do not allow us to gut the doors and put lexan windows in otherwise I would do that for sure. Just a tip you may want to look into your front end setup not sure what you have done since your photos but looks like your in need of some negative camber on the front. rules allow modifying the strut mounting holes and welding washers over them to achieve this, also you can lower the front of the car slightly by raising the holes up, but be sure not to go too far or the tyres will hit the spring perch. You can also modify the strut top to a max of 10mm to lower the front. I found it easier to modify the nolythane bush to achieve the same effect. you are also allowed to modify the lower control arm mounting point on the k-frame this combined with moving the strut mounting holes further outward allows you to achieve max track width on the front for the class. hope this helps and good luck with your future racing. If you want some pics I'll take some off my car but exact locations of these holes is somewhat of a black art and is why within the VT saloon car class there is some cars that handle beautifully and some woefully.

Hey Mate Nice thread even motivated me to join the forum good to see someone keen to put budget racing to the test, I also run a VT Commodore in the QLD saloon car series. Mind you I wasn't as adept to build mine from the ground up. for some clarification with driver in car my weight is between 1510 to 1550 kg depending on fuel load, I have seen national VT's weigh in at just over the 1450 min weight but I have no idea where they loose that extra kgs from.