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Good suggestions there, thanks. I really just wanted a chain because they are relatively maintenance free. I went to replace on in my KE70 not so long ago but in hindsight, it probably didn't need it. That was almost certainly in there from the start of time. Timing belts on the other hand, I'm not so sure how difficult they are to replace. Looks like it's planned that way i suppose.. Get's you back to the garage more often. I suppose as long as I can do it myself I should be right. Something in the 90's would probably suit me fine though will consider cost first. Any more suggestions welcome. Toyota's are great.. Any other models, makes which are pretty good. I see allot of small cars out there these days but not sure how they perform. How about Nissan? Ford?

I'm in the process of deciding what car to get next. I currently have a 1983 Toyota Corolla (KE70) and it has served me very well. It's just come of age and I'm not longer going to spend any time on it. The things I liked about this car I'll list below, as these are the features I'm looking for in a car. Very simple.. No bells and whistles. (No electric windows or anything like that) Manual.. preferably 5 speed. Very reliable.. Engine which has a reputation for lasting forever. Something I can work on myself. Not so technically chipped up that I need NASA to fix it. A Timing Chain as opposed to a timing belt. Saves allot of work, especially if I'm working on it myself. Around 1.5 - 1.6 liter. or even 1.3 liter. My KE70 is just 1.3 and it's great. Economical on fuel. Something which I can get allot of parts from a wrecker for. I'm not looking for bran new. Something used and I would assume something in the 90's models. I only say this because later models are increasingly difficult to work on. I would assume a Toyota would fit this bill. Probably a seca. I would like a hatch if possible as my KE70 sedan is a little small for carrying stuff. Even a small station wagon would be great. Any clues as to which vehicles fit this description. I figured it would be best to draw on the knowledge out there rather than spend weeks asking friends and family awkward questions. Thanks..

I'm doing the clutch in a KE70 (1983 Toyota Corolla)., Have done it before and know what is involved. Willing to drive anywhere from the CBD to 25km out. It's a relatively easy job but don't want to do it in the car park. Thought there may be some drive up ramps about the place where people can go an work on their vehicle if need be. Not that I've heard of this kind of thing before but I notice these ramps in some industrial sites which have been closed off and unused. Behind a fence of course. I used wheel stands last time which were ok. Just trying to make things easier that's all.

Just wondering if there was anywhere I could work on a car in the Melbourne area. I live in a block of units which makes it hard for bigger jobs. I'm hoping to find somewhere where with some drive on ramps if possible or somewhere designated for this kind of thing. Maybe I'll need to pay a fee for a day but it will be worth it as I'm doing my clutch and there's not enough space where I am. Any suggestions? Thanks

Thanks both. The timing mark for TDC is between the two marks at the front. It's a small notch on the back of the pulley. I'll do that alltez, will post how it goes in a week or so. I'm taking a break from the car.. much needed. A few hours later.... I've just been thinking about my timing being advanced too far. That certainly explains my idle problem and my inability to adjust the idle speed.. Would you know if this would also explain a small bump I feel at around idle speed. It seems to be at regular intervals. If my timing has been advanced too far and my fuel air mix is incorrect then could it cause that miss, or bump at idle speeds? Your answer above has got me thinking altezz. Cheers

Hmm.. I probably have pulled the cam forward in relation to the crank. I believe I lined it up correctly though, the keyway on the camshaft in relation to the dot on the camwheel should have allowed that I would assume. OK, thanks, but I didn't completely understand your last paragraph. (The valves will be opening and closing earlier and the points firing earlier ) Is this good or a bad thing? Do I need to go in and readjust the chain again? (Changing the chain made quite a difference! I expect the valve timing is now at factory spec) I'm assuming from this it sounds like I did it right. Is that correct? which you could check by measuring the valve opening times, and the dizzy just gets adjusted to 10deg advance. Is that using the timing light? Not sure what you mean here. I have adjusted the dizzy several times now. How do you measure the valve opening times? Initially things ran fine. Drove about 100km in it the other day and it went well. After fiddling with the mixer and idle screws I now get a little miss at idle speed. Also the idle speed won't come down, it stays quiet high. This to me sounds like a carby problem or an air leak (of which I can't find). Just making sure it's not connected to the timing chain I did recently.

Thanks for that.. I suppose I'm really wondering why my spark is happening so far in advance? 35 degrees +. Before I changed the timing chain it was at about 5 degrees. Some good tips there.

Thanks.. I have another question if anyone is interested. It's about setting the timing. The car was running fine until I started fiddling around with the timing. I also installed a timing chain recently. The car ran fine after that, so this problem has started since my bright idea to reset the timing . Here it goes... I am using a timing light. When my number one cylinder is at top dead centre, the notch on my flywheel is at around 5 degrees before top dead centre. I marked the wheel with white liquid paper. I then hook up the timing light to number one cylinder ( it works) and kick the engine over. When pointing the light at where the mark is, the white mark is nowhere to be seen at the 0 to 10 degree (prior to tdc) mark. But if I direct the light back around the wheel (anticlockwise, prior to tdc or 0) the white mark is at around 35 degrees or more when the light locates it. In other words, the spark happens at least 35 degrees from top dead centre. Maybe even further. What is this telling me. Is the vehicle sparking too soon? Seems to be, but this is where it runs at it's best. If I set it to 5 or 10 degrees from tdc it just conks out. Why would this be? The vehicle is nowhere near top dead centre or when the number one cylinder notch spaces the contact to make it spark. I've set the gap correctly, several times.. I'm at a loss to explain it. Thanks

I've started another topic because I've created another issue. Though someone may know how to do this properly. I was playing around with my idle and mixer screw on my carby today as I've messed things up in the past. I'm not 100% sure what I'm doing. I have a small bump at low RPMs, and I think I created it by messing with these screws. I realize this could be a myriad of things but I'd like to focus on this for now. On my 4KC carburetor there are three screws. A Fast Idle Screw andIdle Speed Screw and a Mixer Screw. (Photo below, couldn't find a better diagram). How do I coordinate the adjustment of these three screws to set these correctly. Where should the idle be when setting the mixer screw for example? What do I do with the Fast Idle Screw? etc. etc.

Well, the job is done.. I can't believe it. I think the worst part is getting the sump rubber back on.. It looks like my assumptions about the timing and the keyway position were correct. At top dead centre the keyway is not necessarily vertical. Another reason why this might be the case is sunken engine supports (moreso on the left side). I'm sure they've never been replaced. I also changed the condenser. It's hard to say if it was the condenser or the timing chain because I did them both at once, but what I can say is that the car runs allot smoother now, it sounds smoother or something. But this car has always tested me and after driving up the driveway after taking it for a spin, the tailpipe snapped. Probably an issue caused by all the blowbacks from my past problem. I'm quiet relieved it works. When I first started the car it wouldn't start. There were a few small jumps which I would assume was caused by my turning of the crank shaft by hand several times. Maybe air or something, not sure. I've placed some photos of the final job below. It's hard to get a good angle but I figured these might help someone considering all the help I've received on this forum. Note the spacing on the tensioner compared to my original picture. One Question: The timing kit came with a tensioner pad with a hard rubber surface. The previous one was like nylon plastic or somthing. Does this make a difference? Is rubber ok. cheers. Keep in mind that the keyway on the crankshaft is not vertical and everything worked out fine.

I've decided to replace that as well. Just to make sure.

Thanks for that. That's what I'm going to do. I can't see any other way it can go.. :) I'll take a photo of the flames if it all goes wrong. A couple of hours later....... Something which has given me a surge of confidence in my alignment strategy is the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley. When the keyway on the crankshaft is in the position mentioned above, the TDC timing mark on the inside of the crankshaft pulley is at 0 exactly (which is where it should be) The marks on the pulleys also align when at this position. I'm very pleased. I was thinking earlier that this double chain in my KE70 is not the original which is why I may have some differences in the standard way it is set. It could also be the difference between genuine Toyota parts and generic parts made by other companies. The ultimate test will be when I turn the key (once put back together) though I'm pretty confident things are right.

Thanks, but that's really the point. I have the compression stroke and place a small screwdriver in the number 1 spark plug hole (on the compression stroke). I turn the crankshaft and it reaches it's peak (the top) at around 5 degrees to the right of where the keyway on the crankshaft is vertical. If I move it to vertical, it's not possible to align the dots on the camshaft and crankshaft because the keyway is too close the the dot 120 degrees clockwise from the keyway (on the crankshaft) and I'm not at top dead centre. So, I suppose I'm asking, is it safe, as long as I have found top dead centre, on the compression stroke, to align the dots between the sprockets (the red line on my previous diagram). The end result will look like this: (see photo). My top dead center definitely isn't when the keyway is vertical and the positioning of the dot from the keyway slot in my crankshaft sprocket is testament to this. If the dot on the crankshaft was a little further around in a clockwise direction they a vertical keyway would also align the dots. Because it is not it is not possible to have a vertical keyway and aligned dots.

Thanks for the tips but unfortunately I'm in Melbourne in my unit car-park. haha. Haven't pulled the engine out or anything like that and won't be pulling out the cam unfortunately. I can adjust the camshaft and crankshaft to align but do to the offset of the notch (dot) on the crankshaft sprocket not being able to align with the camshaft dot, I noticed on a second check that the keyway on the crankshaft is about 5 degrees right of vertical when the number one cylinder is at top dead centre. Why would this be? I thought the keyway would be vertical at top dead centre? If I turn it until I get top dead centre, then everything lines up (but the keyway on the crankshaft will not be vertical, it will be right of vertical by abour 5 degrees). Thanks

Coil, fuel pump, ballast resistor replaced. And the leads.. I'm part way through the timing chain and I'm having a few issues. It's easy to get in there and coparing the new chain with the old, the old chain is a little bit longer but not by much. When I put the new chain in,it's allot tighter but the alignment is something I'm having trouble with. Here it goes. I'm using a Gregories manual. One thing I forgot to mention is that this is a 1983 Toyota Corolla KE70 'S' High Cam. I don't know if High Cam makes a difference in what I'm doing as I don't even know what it means. Anyway.. the gregories shows that the crankshaft keyway needs to be vertical so I can align everything up. When the keyway is vertical the number 1 cylinder is at top dead centre. There is a small notch about 120 degrees to the right of the right of the notch. At this cog, the bright link on the timing chain goes over this point. Unfortunately this notch on the small cog (camshaft sprocket) cannot be placed in a position to cut a centre line (the big red line) through the two cogs and align with the notch on the far side of the camshaft sprocket (large sprocket). I'm probably getting things confused. Should the center line cut the crankshaft sprocket in half? I think the big question is this. Should this be set up so the dot on the camshaft sprocket and cranshaft sprocket meet in the centre? I notice that this is how some timing chains are installed? Photo's below.

Thanks for all that. I will let you know if it's the chain and whatever else I discover. As for the distance between the back of the tensioner pad and the tensioner body, it is definitely large. Whilst I haven't noticed the chain rattling against the case, without putting the 10kg force on the chain it is a little over 13.5mm. The whole interior of the crank case looks rather new though. There are grooves in the tensioner pad but the chain and cogs look alright. The dampener is definitely less than 4mm though and it' has grooves in it. If I hold in the tensioner against the spring there is a good amount of slack in the chain. In the end, it may be an overkill doing the chain but it will fix my timing problem and probably save me a bit of fuel. The timing is hard to set because the white mark jumps around as mentioned. I replaced everything else, all the electricals etc. Even the head gasket so I've pulled out all the rods and they look fine. The problem goes away if I don't drive the car for a while so the heat of a long trip really sets it off. Could be electrical but I suspect the timing chain expands a little after about 2 hours of driving non-stop which is when the problem comes back. When things are hot. There is an identical condenser to the one I have which is for another car and I could have bought that one without thinking. I've done worse. I can't remember what I bought before but it could be the issue too. I hope not because this time the car has cost me allot of time and some unnecessary money but in the end, a new timing chain kit which is less than $70 isn't allot to pay for the peace of mind and one less thing gone wrong. At least the chain will outlive the car, lol. Will keep ya posted.

If you call want a good laugh I just though I would share this. The condenser in the photo above is a Bosch condenser for a Bosch distributor. The majority of Condensers SuperCheap Auto has are around $7 to $13. This one, the last time I looked (a few years ago) was around $8.95. I saw the same condenser on the shelf today for a whopping $26.50, more than double the price of the most expensive condenser they have. I don't know anywhere in the electronics world where you pay that kind of money for a small capacitor such as this. Maybe I'm a bit mean but that is ridiculous. I didn't buy it, was just looking... and almost choked. Bosch must be thinking they have the only one that will fit a Bosch Distributor. I have no doubt all of you will have a similar experience with another part of some description, but I just thought I would take the opportunity to ridicule this case just a little.

Plent of fuel in the Carby. I cleaned and rekitted the whole thing. If anything, with the problem, it ran better after that but it didnt' fix the issue. I just though I may have put a dud condenser in there but I know the timing chain needs replacing too. Even if it's not the chain, it's the tensioner which has some grooves in the surface and has probably never been replaced. While everything is off, I might as well replace it. It will probably be better on fuel in the end and easier to set the timing on. I have the same gregories and all those details. I'll do those checks once the chain is out, but first I'll waite until I have a new one in my hands.

It's interesting indeed. By the time I've solved this I will have practically rebuilt the car. I'll consider that next time I try to fix something. Thanks for the comment on the tensioner. I can't waite until this is over. Is there a particular type of condenser for the 1983 Toyota Corolla KE70 model (4KC motor). Because this sounds so much like a condenser issue too (now that I've looked it up.) but I know there are issues with the timing chain. Either way I'm going to check this again with another new condenser, they don't cost much. I replaced this before but I seem to remember having difficulty finding one so I'm not sure what I ended up settling for. Are they available in capacitance or is there a range of condensers I can use? Sorry for drawing this out. Thanks

Yep, cleaned every contact, replaced the condensor. I even dismantled the dizzy and checked for broken teeth. When a chain stretches the timing becomes erratic. If it's consistently out you've jumped a cog. I have spent a very long time on this which is why I'm where I'm at now. Definetly not electrical. I know the bolt you're talking about and that does cause problems when loose. It also causes starting problems I discovered not so long ago. So, let's say for arguments sake that it is the condensor. This problem is less of an issue after at least 24 hours of letting the car cool down. I just assumed this has something to do with heat and chain stretch though would a condenser do the same thing?. Can a condensor go suddenly when driving over a long distance. You're right, the symptoms are the same. Can't accellerate too hard or I'll get blowbacks and no power. If I can get to 4th gear on the highway I can roll along at about 70kph. This jump was happening for a while before things went. I kept snapping the ceramic spacer in the contact because of this jumping.

Thanks, found that today. Had to drop the sump. Why do you think it won't solve my issue? Do you think the problem is somewhere else?

I have all the classic symptoms of timing chain stretch. This initially happened on the way back from a long trip. The cars timing is set correctly and since the problem I've had everything from the head gasket to all the electricals replaced. For some time I was getting bumps when driving. Like the engine was jerking. On this one day after driving for 10 hours, something went and I was getting blowbacks and sparks flying out of my muffler. I could drive the car but only at low speeds. Any accelleration would bring back the problem. Basically the spluttering only occurs under load. After letting the car sit for 2 days the problem died down allot and a that's when I cleared all the fuel lines, rekitted the carby and all the electricals (everything), replaced the head gasket and replaced all the filters. I tried to do a trip recently and after about 2 hours when things heated up, the bumping came back and then the spluttering under load again. The car has done over 300,000 k's and has probably never had the timing chain looked at. All the symptoms of a stretched or even partially stressed timing chain are there and this time any big accellerations the spluttering starts. The car runs rough now. I suspected it some time ago but didn't touch it as I thought, like most, that timing chains don't need replacing. But given the age of the car and the amount of miles it's done (probably more than 300 as I suspect the last owner disconnected the speedo cable) the probability is quiet high. The gap between the tensioner pad and base is quiet large as you can see from the photos above. I can't see any breaks in the chain but when I push the tensioner in with my finger, the chain is quiet loose. Probably enough to create some lag between cogs. Does that make sense? Also.. When using a timing light and marking fan belt with a white marker, the white mark doesn't stay in one spot. It seems to jump back and fourth which is also an indication of a bad timing chain. OR, it could also be worn gears. It looks ok overall but there is literally nothing else it could be, given that I've replaced everything. And,, as mentioned above, it's hard to pick up a stretched timing chain. The symptoms though are classic since I've learned allot about it lately. The probem comes back badly when I've been driving for a while. The real problems start on the long trips. I would assume that a hot timing chain would stretch to some extent and then contract when the car cools which would explain why the problem goes away if I don't' drive the car for a day at least. I suppose I hoped someone would recognise whether or not there is a large gap from the tensioner pad to the base in my photos above. Photo of the camshaft sprocket below.

Possibly so. I spoke with toyota in Sydney and Melbourne today and they both confirm it's a double chain for this model. They could be mistaken , possibly due to the age of the car. I've attached some photo's of my tensioner and chain. Does this look to loose to anyone? It's hard for me to tell because I've never replaced one before. Thanks

Hi, thanks,,but I just pulled my timing cover off an it's a double. It's been in the car since I bought it 12 years ago and it looks bran new with some wear on the tensioner despite the fact that I'm having timing chain issues. I would say that has been in the car from the beginning . Looking at the chain it looks like there's nothing wrong with it. Are stretched timing chains visibly stretched or is it something slight and unoticeable?

Thanks. I don't suppose you know whether this takes a single or double width timing chain? This is a KE70 built September 1983. I just bought a timing chain kit with gears but it's a single width. It says on the box it's for 3k,4K and 5K . I know the 4K was in vehicles prior to 1981 when KE70 came in. Does this mean I need to take it back?