buzzook Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 OK, if you want a laugh, read on... Had my AE102 1.8L Conquest auto sedan for a few years, but it had new pads just before I got it, so have never had to do the front disc pads before. My old Suzuki used to be a 15min job, so I figured the Rolla had to be simple, right? Wrong!! Doh!! I pulled the pads from the caliper ok, got the piston back in with a C-clamp, as you do, but I cannot figure out how to get the new pads into the caliper without growing an extra arm or three... There are these [insert suitable adjective] wishbone-shaped springs that connect the two pads together, and sit on the outer edge of the pads right under the curve of the caliper. Seems to me that the only way the pads will go in is with these springs pre-attached.... But do you think I can get the little muthas to stay on....??? I know I *must* be doing something wrong, so what's the trick...?? Anyone assist???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) You install the wishbone clips after you've put the pads into the carrier but before you both the caliper back over the carrier/rotor ie at THIS stage (just imagine the caliper still attached by one of the pivot bolts The first time you do a set of pads is always the hardest, you do everything the wrong way and it takes you half a day to get it all back together. The next time takes you 15 minutes, tops... Quick procedure for changing pads in a 101/102 (basically the same as any single-piston floating caliper) 1) Jack car up at appropriate end, remove wheel 2) Remove lower pivot bolt, hinge caliper up out of the way (note the pads and pad carrier stay in place on the rotor) and retain with a cable tie or wire 3) Remove old pads 4) Install new pads, clips and shims 5) Using a brake piston clamp, compress the caliper piston fully into the caliper (it helps to take the cap off the brake master cylinder at this stage, but look out for it overflowing and remove some brake fluid with a syringe if necessary) 6) Lower caliper over brake pads, re-install lower pivot bolt 7) Install wheel, lower car, and pump brake pedal several times to ensure piston is fully seated against the back of the pads NOTE: If you're doing this on the rear disc brakes, then you use a caliper socket tool rather than a clamp to reset the piston - the stock handbrake acts on the piston via a threaded rod, so you need to screw this back rather than just pushing the piston back in Edited June 14, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzook Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) OK, I sort of get it.....but there is still something missing, or that I don't understand. So I've taken the caliper right off (because the dirt shields behind the hub prevent it pivoting out of the way) - and separated the cliper and the pad carrier - the latter just slides off the pins bolted to the caliper (the upper two red circles in the pic).... But putting the pads into the carrier and slipping this back over the rotor, and temp fixing it by one of the mounting bolts...I still can't get the caliper to slide back over the top....the two cast iron protrusions (in the lower horizontal ellipse in the pic) prevent the caliper slipping over the rotor and pad carrier. Seems to me the only way this can be done is to remove the two pins (circled top) and place them into the receiver holes on the pad carrier, then slip the caliper over the top of the pad carrier and rotor, and then re-attach the pins to the caliper. Does that make sense...??? Edited June 15, 2013 by buzzook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 OK, I sort of get it.....but there is still something missing, or that I don't understand. So I've taken the caliper right off (because the dirt shields behind the hub prevent it pivoting out of the way) - and separated the cliper and the pad carrier - the latter just slides off the pins bolted to the caliper (the upper two red circles in the pic).... But putting the pads into the carrier and slipping this back over the rotor, and temp fixing it by one of the mounting bolts...I still can't get the caliper to slide back over the top....the two cast iron protrusions (in the lower horizontal ellipse in the pic) prevent the caliper slipping over the rotor and pad carrier. Seems to me the only way this can be done is to remove the two pins (circled top) and place them into the receiver holes on the pad carrier, then slip the caliper over the top of the pad carrier and rotor, and then re-attach the pins to the caliper. Does that make sense...??? I'm surprised you had to completely remove the caliper, I've never had a trouble with the dust shields interfering with it when pivoting out of the way. You've made it a lot harder on yourself that way Try putting the caliper in just via the top pivot bolt, remove the bottom bolt and then pivot the whole caliper back over the pads and the carrier (it is easier this way than trying to slide it over before putting either of the pivot bolts back in). If that doesn't work, take the pads out completely and re-assemble everything else, then try the method I listed above, and if the dust shield gets in the way at all just bend it with a pair of pliers, it isn't that critical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzook Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) HI mate, thanks for the response, but you're missing something, or I am... The problem is that to install the pads in the carrier, so I can access the upper side of the them to install the wishbone springs, the caliper has to be detached from the carrier, becasue the upper surface of the caliper prevents access to the wishbone springs if the two parts are together. Soooo, once the caliper and carrier are apart, and the pads installed in the carrier, the caliper then won't "slip" back over it in any way shape or form.... Hence my question - do the pins and their retaining nuts have to be removed from the caliper assembly in order to slip the caliper down over the carrier where it sits on the rotor? The attachment bolts (which secure the entire assembly to the hub) attach to the *carrier* not to the caliper...the caliper 'floats' on the pins and is not otherwise attached to the carrier or to the hub... Weird, but hey, that's how it is...take a closer look at the pic. Edited June 15, 2013 by buzzook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 In the current state, then yes you'll need to remove one of the pivot bolts (which are currently attached to your caliper, circled in red) so that the assembly can be put back together properly - note that they are two-piece (the pivot/slide pin is the long bolt that goes through the carrier, and the short stumpy lockbolt is what locks the pivot pin to the caliper, so you'll need 2 spanners or a spanner and a socket). Unbolt the lower pivot pin and lockbolt from the caliper, and slide the lower pivot bolt (without the lock bolt) into the lower hole on the carrier. Then slide the upper pivot bolt (still locked to the caliper) into the top hole of the carrier. Then, hinge the caliper down over the pads (making sure that the piston is fully back into the caliper, and that the wishbone clips and shims are installed on the pads) - if the wishbone clips are pushing the pads out then leave them off until the caliper has just started to clamp over the pads. Finally, tighten the lower lock bolt to lock the lower pivot pin to the caliper The way that you have things disassembled at the moment is not how things are supposed to be done, which is why it is such a mess to get back together - ideally nothing would actually ever be completely unbolted from the car except for the pads themselves. These photos show how it should be done - if you can get what you have to this stage then the rest is easy. See how the caliper is still attached to the carrier via the top pivot bolt, and the bottom lock bolt has been removed (what you see attached to the carrier is the pivot bolt itself) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzook Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Thanks, Hiro, that's what I'd figured out myself.... I undid the lockbolts and replaced the piston/pins back into the carrier and the whole thing slid together as you said it would. Replace the lock bolts and bob's your uncle. Easy peasy. But I still don't think mine can be done with the existing dustshields in place, but as I'm only working on the LHS (knew better than to remove both of them) I'll have another go at the RHS your way and see if I can make it work. Thanks for the assistance. Pic shows the relevant bolts - A is the 17mm hex head which attaches the entire assembly to the hub. According to Hiro you should only need to remove one of the two, and simply loosen the other. B is the lockbolts, 14mm hex head, two of, and again, according to Hiro you only need to rmeove one and loosen the other, so the caliper can pivot up out of the way to provide access to remove and replace the pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) No, don't touch A at all - that bolts the carrier to the hub, and doesn't need to be loosened. You remove the bottom B and loosen the top B, allowing the caliper to hinge upwards around the top B bolt. The very first time I changed my pads I made the mistake of undoing both the A bolts and removed the entire caliper/carrier assembly from the rotor and hub, which made re-assembling the unit over the rotor with the pads already installed extremely hard. Edited June 15, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzook Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 HIro You are absolutley correct! As I hadn't touched the RHS I did it exactly as you said above - loosen the top 'B' nut and remove the lower one; pivot the caliper assembly up and out of the way; squeeze the piston back in with a C-clamp; flip out the old pads and replace with the new; re-attach the wishbone springs; slip the caliper back down over the rotor and pads, re-attached bottom B bolt, tighten top B bolt and all done. 5 mins. You=legend. Gotta love the internet...lol Tx again! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 HIro You are absolutley correct! As I hadn't touched the RHS I did it exactly as you said above - loosen the top 'B' nut and remove the lower one; pivot the caliper assembly up and out of the way; squeeze the piston back in with a C-clamp; flip out the old pads and replace with the new; re-attach the wishbone springs; slip the caliper back down over the rotor and pads, re-attached bottom B bolt, tighten top B bolt and all done. 5 mins. You=legend. Gotta love the internet...lol Tx again! :) Told you it's easy :P Still, at least you learnt with your eyes and your hands - reading a book and looking up stuff on the internet can only get you so far, hands-on experience wins every time. If you're going to be doing more home servicing/maintenance on the car, I'd suggest buying the Gregorys manual (#271, thats where those pictures came from). It has saved me a _heap_ of trouble in the past, and more than paid for itself in labour costs etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzook Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) Yeah, expect you're right, and I usually do buy the manual for my cars, but this one was only a "temp" I bought - three years ago - and thus far it's only had oil and petrol, and an indicator light lens I...ahem..bumped while manoevering in the back yard. But as I'd done brake pads on heaps of other cars, I figured I could manage without the manual.... Famous last words..!! What's really p*******g me off is that I only wanted to change the pads because I could hear a sort of graunching noise coming from the front wheels which was clearly more readily noticeable going round corners and not straight ahead, and not while apply ing the brakes.... So I *assumed* it was the pads getting down. But they hadn't even got to the bottom of the siping grooves cut into the pad surface, so probably half the thickness of the pads still to go (based on thickness of the new ones). What I did notice in removing the calipers was that the small wishbone springs - at least on the LHS, can't be certain about the RHS - had a small 'bright spot' dead centre, as though they were being kissed by a high spot on the rotor as it revolved.... So I'm wondering if I need to pull them down again and replace those springs, or could the graunchy, scraunch-scraunch noise be something else..... Any ideas??? Edited June 15, 2013 by buzzook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 I doubt those wishbone clips would be able to make enough noise for you to hear in the cabin, I'm afraid it is most likely something much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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