Zoidburg Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Hi guys, As you may have read I recently put together a tough little 5K for my KE-30 2 door. The motor has 40 thou oversized pistons, lumpy cam, ported head, extractors, MSD ignition blah blah blah. Much to my surprise it has solid lifters and adjustable rockers. The motor was given to me so I did'nt select the cam or rocker gear. The issue is the rocker gear is loud as hell, and I've adjusted the tappets correctly. My theory is the guy that had it before me had the cam ground to suit the hydraulic lifters, and then converted it to soilids afterwards. This would explain the horrible rattle from the rocker gear. I'm intending to put hydraulic rocker gear in it to remedy this, but Toyota only sell the lifters and pushrods. What I need to know is, if I got the hydraulic lifters and pushrods, will they work with my adjustable rockers? Thanks very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM85 Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 (edited) No they will not. You will need to work out what type of pushrods and lifters are in it. The 5k hydraulic set up has short pushrods with balls on both ends and the rocker gear is not adjustable. The issue comes down to the depth the pushrod sits in the lifter. There are only 2 types which fit. Holden/Chev lifters or the rarely spare 5k solid. It could also be a gutted 5k hydraulic. The pushrods could either be modified 3k/4k pushrods or Datsun pushrods. You need to convert the lifters, pushrods and rockers back to standard. Or get the cam reground. Also, with out knowing the extent of modifaction done to the engine, it is difficult to assume it will be that simple. For instance, if the rocker towers have been machined or if the block was decked that will change things. Edited October 9, 2010 by GJM85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD ke70 Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Or you could have a factory fitted adjustable rockers, in which case replace them with 4k rockers. It could be a simple as just worn rocker arms!! My guess would be, someone has bodged them up using NON-STANDARD(Chev-Datsun)parts and this is the problem you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoidburg Posted October 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Dammit, was afraid of that! Sounds like I'm really up the creek with this one. Why wont the hydraulic pushrods match up to my rocker gear? Is it a length difference or something? I placed an add in the WTB section for 5K hydraulic rocker gear, but got zero hits. :bash: Guess I need to keep looking and hope someone sells some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoidburg Posted October 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 The cam has the numbers "666" engraved on it, if that helps. I've got no idea who did the grind. Hopefully someone does the rocker gear aftermarket, will keep looking. :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM85 Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 It's your lucky day.... i've got the pushrods and rocker gear you need. You'll need new lifters though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towe001 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 There are only 2 types which fit. Holden/Chev lifters or the rarely spare 5k solid. It could also be a gutted 5k hydraulic. The pushrods could either be modified 3k/4k pushrods or Datsun pushrods. I'm pretty sure Cameron has done the conversion with parts from a Land Cruiser F-series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM85 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 I'm pretty sure Cameron has done the conversion with parts from a Land Cruiser F-series Yeah apparently they carry the same part number which would make them the same part. I looked into it though various parts suppliers and was unable to confirm or deny it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM85 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 ok i'm doing some research. So far i've found we have the two different 5k engines. If the head with lugs and block you have are orginal you apparently should have a 5k, solid lifter, D dish piston and twin squish head with adjustable rocker gear. I have the 5k, hydraulic lifter, O dish piston and nominal head with non adjustable rocker gear. If i'm correct.... The combustion your 5k occurs lower in the cylinder bore. Larger piston dish with smaller combustion chamber in the head. The combustion in my 5k occurs higher in the cylinder head. Smaller piston dish with larger combustion chamber in the head. There are also differences in the lifter depth (how deep the pushrod sits in the lifter) and the length of the pushrods. My pushrods, without measuring them are 155-160mm long and have ball ends. Your pushrods should be 179mm long with ball and cup ends. I'm beginning to think you have the 5k solid motor and the previous owner has either purchased the cam or ground to suit the 5k hydraulic motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD ke70 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Interesting stuff, but i think some of the info is miss leading!!! The twin squish (the one with the lugs under the No 1 spark plug) is the most common and is the one with dished pistons and hyd lifters. The next is the flat top piston engine, which doesn't have the lugs, but these also have hyd lifters. The most uncommon 5k has flat top pistons and adjustable rockers. There is also another head for a 5k which has a step in the combustion chamber, but these are very rare. The only way to tell if you have an engine with solid lifters, is to pull off the rocker cover!! 3F land cruiser lifters are 5k solids, the part number in Toyota's EPC shows this, also check the wiki as there is a pic in there with the part numbers. The biggest problem appears to be matching the push rod lengths to the cylinder head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM85 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 (edited) Interesting stuff, but i think some of the info is miss leading!!! The twin squish (the one with the lugs under the No 1 spark plug) is the most common and is the one with dished pistons and hyd lifters. The next is the flat top piston engine, which doesn't have the lugs, but these also have hyd lifters. The most uncommon 5k has flat top pistons and adjustable rockers. There is also another head for a 5k which has a step in the combustion chamber, but these are very rare. The biggest problem appears to be matching the push rod lengths to the cylinder head. The twin squish head goes hand in hand with D-dished pistons. I have O dished pistons without twin squish and hydraulic lifter. A combination not on your list. And yes the pushrod length is the critical mass that makes or breaks it. Edited October 10, 2010 by GJM85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 (edited) Sorry, but the term "Twin Squish" refers to the piston design, not the head. Dished 4k's either come with D dish or twin squish pistons... Both have the same shallow combustion chamber head design (shared with dished 5k) with the lugs. Also O-Dish is the 5k equivalent of a flat top. They aren't proper flat tops, as they had to put in a shallow dish to enable the use of the normal flattop 4k head... otherwise they'd have stupid compression ratios with the extra 200cc's. Do some compression ratio maths and you'll understand. I'll find a pic of the different 4k dished pistons and put it up. Edited October 10, 2010 by Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM85 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 It get frustrating when people refer to a shallow dish piston as a flat top. It's not the case, ask Taz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 (edited) 4k dished pistons. D-dish on left, twin-squish on the right. As for 5k's having a proper flat top piston I've only ever seen a couple. One had Gemini G161 pistons and the other was a turbo 5k which had the pistons machined down to the bottom of the dish (the pistons sat down the bore at TDC). Edited October 10, 2010 by Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM85 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 (edited) I feel bad for going here. But..... FAQ - converting 5k hydraulic lifter to solid lifter If you convert to solid lifters.. the hydraulic version rocker assembly must also be changed to the solid lifter version so that the valve clearances can be adjusted. The hydraulic lifter type rocker gear has no valve clearance adjustment because the hydraulic lifters do it instead. Some rocker gear may vary in height (this needs to be confirmed, possibly between 2k/3k?) and the head height itself can be different height depending on which K engine it came from. If the wrong height is used, the rockers do not operate at the correct angles and the valve clearances will be out of adjustment range. Carefull selection of pushrod length and head/rocker height is paramount to the engine valve train working at all. #1: Using genuine 5k solid lifters: part number 13751-61020 Used in conjunction with a conventional 4k/5k head (ie not twin-squish): Fitted with genuine 5k solid lifters you will need to use either the genuine 5k (solid lifter type) pushrods 186mm or conventional 4k pushrods with 4k/5k adjustable (non hydraulic) rocker gear. OR Used together with a twin-squish 4k/5k (5k is the hydraulic lifter head) and 4k twin-squish pushrods with adjustable (non hydraulic) 4k/5k rocker gear. (5k hydraulic pushrods are too short). #2: Using modified 5k hydraulic lifters: Can use 3k pushrods (###mm long) if you gut the hydraulic 5k lifters (re-fit the seat in the bottom) and use the 4k/5k adjustable (non hydraulic) rocker gear. In the hydraulic lifter 5k block.. if non oem lifters are used, they may cause an oil loss issue. when using original solid lifters in a hydraulic lifter block, they block the hydro lifter oil feed holes, so no problem. If the modified/non oem lifters do not block the oil holes then the feed gallery needs to be plugged. To do this, there is a grub screw on the hydraulic lifter 5k located in the side of the block in front of the distributor. To plug the oil feed requires inserting a pin under the grub screw to plug the oil channel. (what diameter? can someone finish this statement)? Solid lifter K blocks do not have this grub screw. Edited October 10, 2010 by GJM85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.