Jump to content
Husdjuret

Toyota KE70 constant power when battery is connected

Recommended Posts

Hello!
I have a KE70 I need some help with.
Sorry if the text is a mess, I'm swedish so my english aint the best :)

Bought the car about a couple of months ago with this problem.
The car in question has constant power when the battery is connected.
That is, everything is switched on as if you turned on the ignition even when the ignition is off.
Low beam, poslight, taillight, instrument panel, etc.

And according to previous owners, the car could not turn off one day when he drove to work and after that this problem occured. He said he disconnected the battery to stop the engine.

The car is started with a Start button that is connected to the car.
I have failed to see anything wrong with that connection

The light switch does not work like it should, it don't matter if the switch is off or in poslight.
The headlight is always on
The lights in the instrument panel become brighter as you turn the ignition but are always lit.

Have tried changing the ignition switch and the locking piston without results
The car behaves the same.
Have checked all relays in the fuse box and they look good, can not find any fault with them.

The charge relay clicks as soon as the battery is connected (I don't know if it should do this?) , I tried to disconnect it and the only difference then is that the light switch makes its function work so the lights can be switched on and off but otherwise all the other lights are on.
The cables I looked at have looked good but should be looked at more closely.

My next thought was to check the generator if it somehow sends power to the system and forces this error.

It feels like the car backfeeds power from somewhere but I don't't where.

Any tips on what to look for a little extra?
Something obvious that I hadn't thought of?
Someone who has been on similar flaws?
All ideas are greatly appreciated!

Sincerely

Update

After a long time I have been able to troubleshoot the car further.
After searching for glitches in contacts and cable trunks with no results, I start looking at the generator.

Noticed that the battery/charge light does not light up like it should when the ignition is on?
Started pulling the fuse to the generator which resulted in the car not getting the same symptoms but instead:

- the light switch works properly and can regulate the lighting.

- the ignition is not switched on until you turn the key on which the battery light actually started to illuminate as well as the oil lamp.

- the charging relay / regulator still clicks when switching on the battery, I am unsure if it should do it or if it should just click when the ignition switches on?

- The only thing still wrong is the oil lamp glows very dim when you turn the ignition off again, goes out only after you disconnect the battery and reconnect it back on.

Have another generator that I'll test with tonight to see if that's where the bigger error is.

So far what I tried
- changed ignition barrel/lock
Reslut - No change

- disconnected charge relay
Result - Headlights switch works like it should

- disconnected start button
Reslut - No changes

- Pulled headlights relay
Reslut - headlights not working other symptoms still in affect

- pull fuse for the alterantor
Reslut - As i described above

I don't know if it is a earth problem or some short somewhere.
If anyone has any tips on what I should look at I really appriciate it so I can get this car to work and fix everything else that I have planned :)

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members dont see this ad

Have you go a wiring diagram?  If not, there's one here, although each country has little differences.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s0xs2udvrv9qfl2/downloadfile.jpg?dl=0

Study that and see how power can get from the three fusible links to the rest of the car without going through the ignition key.  I'd say disconnect the white wire from the alty and see what happens.

If it has a starter button I'd expect someone to have wired it up incorrectly in the past, so you'll have to search out where it is different to factory.  It may not be involved in the starter button at all but in something else they did.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, altezzaclub said:

Have you go a wiring diagram?  If not, there's one here, although each country has little differences.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s0xs2udvrv9qfl2/downloadfile.jpg?dl=0

Study that and see how power can get from the three fusible links to the rest of the car without going through the ignition key.  I'd say disconnect the white wire from the alty and see what happens.

If it has a starter button I'd expect someone to have wired it up incorrectly in the past, so you'll have to search out where it is different to factory.  It may not be involved in the starter button at all but in something else they did.

 

I have a wiring diagram i found here on the forum earlier and as you said it looks like it's a bit different. 

Earlier today I changed the alternator with one I got from a wrecked car and the resluts was

- the charing relay/regulator don't click when i connect the battery
- the light switch works like it should
- the power only comes on when I turn the ignition on and on the dash the charing/alternator light and oil light comes on like it should with the ignition on.

so it looks like so far everything is working like it should but still when I turn the ignition off the oil light and battery light is still on but with a dim glow and will only go away if i disconnect and reconnect the battery.

It feels like there is something thats not right with the ignition but i will start looking at wiring and see if something has been messed up and the fusible link you talked about.

Thanks for the reply 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the oil/charge lights go away and don't come back when you disconnect the battery it suggests a relay or an earth is involved.  When you disconnect the battery it will break the circuit through any relays that are on, and they won't re-connect until the power is turned back on correctly.

Dim bulbs or the wrong lights coming on suggests an earth is broken and the power is earthing out down the wrong circuit.

Electrical problems are the most frustrating and slow to diagnose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I will get to work with my multimeter and try to locate where the problem may come from.

I was testing around some stuff in the car earlier today and noticed that with the ignition off and the oillamp glowing if i put the gearbox in reverse to activate the back up lights it dimmed the oil light very much.

I also noticed that after the ignition been turned on and off everything was working, fans etc

But if i switch the wipers on it took to much power so the lights on the dash went out and the whiper did stop.

I also tried pulling some fuses, after turning the ingiton on and off I pulled the fuse for it and everything went out very much like when i disconnect the battery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went out and tried my luck with the multimeter while the kids took a nap

Began to check the wire of the charging lamp but could not find any current in it after the ignition was turned off.
Tried to pull the fuse "charge" again and according to earlier, only the charging lamp dimmed significantly but did still glow a little.

Started measuring over fuses and tried to pull some as well.
When I pulled out the "engine" fuse it was possible to switch off the lights when the ignition went off.

At the same time I measured the cables to the ignition lock and on the large input current cable to the ignition I measured up just over 20V which felt funny.
Followed it back to the engine compartment and while following it I felt that this cable was kinda hot/warm

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9386zckjvbgb9kh/20200416_142534.jpg?dl=0

I disconnected it and then tried turning the ignition on and off and it worked like it should, the lights went out.

Followed it and came to the ignition coil
That was hella hot
I could not hold my hand on it for a long time.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hchppwpvvdik8ui/20200416_142604.jpg?dl=0

Disconnected the ignition coil as shown
And tested again to switch the ignition on and off and the ignition worked properly.

Should check out more tonight if it gets current further back or if the coil / resistor is burnt.
The battery died on the multimeter just when I was measuring up the coil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I continiued the search yesterday and gound that the power goes trough the condesor to this contact 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wm8dqzb8fv74ly/20200416_221952.jpg?dl=0

It goes from there to a black grey or black whit cable. 

I think this is where the power is coming from. I tried reconnect the resistor on the coil and pulled this green contact and i had power on the otherside and I think this is the wire that goes to ST 2 on the ignition switch

And the black wire that went to the + terminal on the resistor went to IG2 according to the diagram for the ke70 but i found it that there are some minor changes and found a diagram for a starlet that looks more like what is actually in the car because that also includes the external voltage reg.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vyzjkiqmgy4bzta/Starlet_KP6_Wire_diagram(scanned).png?dl=0

According to that it could be that the wire to the resistor goes to IGN 

It feels like I have to mix and match both diagrams to get it right

What does IG2 does?

I had to scratch my head a bit also, previous owner did fit the car with a startbutton as i mention earlier, does not that mean that the St2 part of the ignition switch should be disconnected?

I will draw up a basic wiring diagram for how the start buttton is connected

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Dropbox diagram is too small for me to see detail, but there is an igniter on this diagram. It doesn't have the ballast resistor the older coil cars have.

The ballast resistor needed two ignition circuits from the key, one to bypass the resistor when starting and feed 12V straight to the coil positive, and the other circuit to run the car once it is started so it feeds into the ballast resistor to drop the voltage for the 9V coil. So the red wire from ST 2 goes straight to coil positive for starting, and the black/orange wire goes to the ballast resistor to run the motor.  With an igniter you shouldn't have those, this USA diagram has just 3 ignition key positions and an igniter.

USA wiring w igniter.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see, I will printscreen the ignition part of the diagram.

Yeah that's what I understand as well. 

It should work like that when you turn ignition on it feeds 12V to the ballast that reduce it to 8 - 9V

And when you turn it to start the wire connected to the coils + should give 12V and cut of as soon as you release the key from the start position and the car runs? 

In my system the wire that goes to the + on the coil gives 12V as soon as the ignition is turned on. The wire to the ballast also get 12V so it feels like the car is stuck in start.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vpu4fbwfxhcosvl/20200418_154329.jpg?dl=0

The wire from the start motor goes to the start button. So far what i figured is that the wiring maybe looks like this, still unsure if the ST2 goes to the ignition switch or if it is wired in to the startbutton/starter motor in some way also 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzwixnc0qqfprnh/20200418_150550.jpg?dl=0

Is it possible for the starter to backfeed power all the way to the ST2 wire somehow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so the power switch only controls the start button, which means that switch is not needed at all.  If the key system is working correctly then ig1 and ig2 work together, as do st1 and st2. The diagram you drew works fine, ign runs the car through the ballast resistor at 9V, st2 starts it through 12V directly to the coil.

You could run the starter button off the ign wire too if you put a relay on it. The automatic KE70s had this already wired in, a 'button' on the gearbox neutral switch that worked a relay that worked the starer solenoid. An option would be to run the button powered all the time, it turns the starter motor but the car wouldn't start without the key being turned on to power the coil.

267286242_Starterbutton.thumb.jpg.fa2af70c712e0bd72dc240d636a1496a.jpg

 

There should be no way power can flow back from the starter to ign2, so long as no other wires come off that wire from the battery to contact 1 on the starter button.  Does anything happen if you turn the pwr switch off after you've started the car?

If the points are closed when the key is on ign then current flows through the coil and the coil heats up over a few minutes.  If the motor stopped with the points open, no current will flow when you have the key turned on, so the coil doesn't get hot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/19/2020 at 3:16 AM, altezzaclub said:

OK, so the power switch only controls the start button, which means that switch is not needed at all.  If the key system is working correctly then ig1 and ig2 work together, as do st1 and st2. The diagram you drew works fine, ign runs the car through the ballast resistor at 9V, st2 starts it through 12V directly to the coil.

You could run the starter button off the ign wire too if you put a relay on it. The automatic KE70s had this already wired in, a 'button' on the gearbox neutral switch that worked a relay that worked the starer solenoid. An option would be to run the button powered all the time, it turns the starter motor but the car wouldn't start without the key being turned on to power the coil.

267286242_Starterbutton.thumb.jpg.fa2af70c712e0bd72dc240d636a1496a.jpg

 

There should be no way power can flow back from the starter to ign2, so long as no other wires come off that wire from the battery to contact 1 on the starter button.  Does anything happen if you turn the pwr switch off after you've started the car?

If the points are closed when the key is on ign then current flows through the coil and the coil heats up over a few minutes.  If the motor stopped with the points open, no current will flow when you have the key turned on, so the coil doesn't get hot.

Yeah, it also powers some extra gauges for oiltemp and water but those are not to the sensor in the engine so they could be deleted.

I been checking with the multimeter in the keyswitch and the st2 wire only get power when i turn the key to start position like it should.

But at the coils + that wire it has power as soon as the igniton is turned on. 

I will try to hook up new cables to the startbutton and the ignition switch to see if that works. 

I'm going away a couple of weeks due to work but will update when i get home and redone the wiring if it works like it should.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"But at the coils + that wire it has power as soon as the igniton is turned on."

The wire that powers the coil from Ign should be going to the ballast resistor then feeding 9V to the coil +ve, its the ST2 wire that feeds 12V to the coil while cranking. Although this may be incorrect I doubt it is feeding power to all your other systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, altezzaclub said:

"But at the coils + that wire it has power as soon as the igniton is turned on."

The wire that powers the coil from Ign should be going to the ballast resistor then feeding 9V to the coil +ve, its the ST2 wire that feeds 12V to the coil while cranking. Although this may be incorrect I doubt it is feeding power to all your other systems.

Yeh! I'm sorry tge wire I'm reffering to is of course the "+ve" that feed 12V constant. And if I unplug it I can turn off the oillamp and batterylamp. I think its wierd also but that it does that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So after a long time with work and family I got a chance to look into the car some more.

I starting to suspect that the wiring loom or fusebox have some issues with slme cable feeding power to another that causes all my problems.

I tried starting the car with the +ve cable dissconnected and the car just clicked.

The i tried starting it with everything connected and the car clicked then the power went out and everything was dead even the clock. If i turned the key to the off position the clock worked again but if i turned the key on the car was dead. If i dissconnected the battery it went back to normal.

Next i tried turning the power on and off and with the key in the off position i tried tapping the main relay wich wich turned the power off i also noticed that the radiator fan moved when the relay shut. 

I have tried with a new relay and it is the samething so i don't think the relay itself is at fault.

Then i took the multimeter to se what cable had power in on and off mode. As i said earlier the charing light still illuminates slightly even if i pull the charge fuse so i tried messure the power over the charge and it read something like 0.11 - 0.18 volts. I dunno if thats correct or not. With the power of it was the same.

After I had messurer around the fuses and cables going in the fusebox and turned the car on and off a few times all of a sudden the radiator fan stared to spin as sooon as i turn the power on. Wich make me think that there is something wrong with the wiring or fusebox because that happend after i been there and poking around.

Next step should be dissconnect the fusebox and open up the wiring loom to se if there is any damaged wires. 

I was thinking about starting to pull every fuse one by one while the fan spins to see if i could isolate the problem to a specific area

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I was thinking about starting to pull every fuse one by one while the fan spins to see if i could isolate the problem to a specific area "

Yep! Start with that! Even if you find one that stops it spinning, continue on to check them in all fuse boxes in case two of them affect it. There are three sets of fuses, drivers footwell, steering column, and that big box on the battery, and 3 relay boxes I can think of, one in driver's footwell, one in passenger's and one on the battery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...