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Toyota 3K engine problem


Papa

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I figure the three of us are all past the age of chasing women

And here is me thinking, that's why we are always trying to make our Rollas go faster  . . . . . . . . . . . .   so we could catch some ?    Bugga !

Talking Oils:   I had a look at links in Papa's post, & came across the following product, which is an oil filter magnetic separator, that sits between the existing screw on filter, & the base.

I am quite aware of magnetic particle collection, & have had a rare earth magnet, glued into my 4K & 5K sump plugs for several years.  It works a treat, & I am always amazed each oil change, how fine the magnetic pieces are, that it catches/attracts. However, I've never come across this particular product.  It has a whopping magnet inside it, & apparently lasts for  maybe 100k klms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4vW4XHBvGU

image.png.34c792fa387740e9553115fff1ed9229.png

It is even available on ebay.   Has anyone ever used one ?  Would fit easily on the K Series engine, me thinks ?.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

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Altezzaclub . Thank you for the explanation of the “9rule” & for posting the pages of the manual , has helped my understanding greatly ! 

Banjo . Equall thanks goes to you !! Also it is good to see that both you guys are on the same page with this stuff . I sure thought that the tq’s would be more than that , my (ft/lb tq wrench). starts at 50ft/lbs so i will have to use my (“in/lbs”) tq wrench . That valve lash clearance still seems upside down to me . To me the hot clearance would be the tighter one, but you both show the same .                         .On the idea of possibly useing the best bearings , l had thought the same , but when l measured the crank with my Mititoya calipers the car motor measured about 50 mm and the extra 49 , that would be about a 40thou grind , so i scraped that idea , of course if l had actually proceeded with that idea, l would have checked further with my micrometers . Thanks again ! 

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I'm sure you have enough experience to look at the crank and decide if it 'will do' with just a new set of bearings. All I did after the oil filter/worn bearings problem was buy a new standard set of bearings and fit them, it was a little side-job while doing head mods.  It backfired as the crank seized when I fitted them, because there was an edge of 'dried oil' beside the old bearings and the new bearings were a fraction wider.

Lesson learned, always get the crank cleaned !

I expect all Japanese car manuals have been translated in English, and one mistake by the translator would give the world the wrong figures. I ignore the manual and have the hot smaller than the cold, the inlet smaller than the exhaust. As a motor the 4K is very tolerant of tappet gap, and also ignition timing. You can have 10deg extra advance without it worrying the motor, they were build for reliability, not speed!

 

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  Altezzaclub ! Thanks for the advice on the crank , l probably would have done the same thing but then again l always look at the crank to see if it is clean all the way across . 
The miss translation is what l was suspicious of , that is probably why there was no play at all in some of them. I just looked at my cummins book & intake is 0.010 , ex 0.020  cold they don't give a hot . 
I set rockers to-day at the 5&9 thou , then did a dry compression test #1=132,, #2=142,, #3=118,, #4=95 Manuel helped me here (push on the starter button) , gave each cyl 5 pulses on the gauge , so obviously there has to be more done to it ! I did not get to do the comp test with oil , which would have told me rings or valves  Well he had been calling around & found another motor for -$88. So he decided to buy it & just swap the engine out instead of re-build . So l have it ready to pull ! I Sure hope its a good one ! 
Banjo l did check the oil pumps , the one out of the other moto was better it = 0.004, car one=0.005 between the inner& outer portion & 0.005 to the case on both & the wear on the plate was also less on the extra . But l won’t be needing to worry about  them .Good learning .THANKS to you both of you for your help ! I wish I could help you guys somehow !  Sorry can not see how to send a private  message I was hoping to figure it out so altezzaclub can e-mail me that manual , l might just need it , maybe you could instruct us on how to do that , who knows what this next engine will be like .
OH Banjo , how did you come up with that mag-filter?? I think that magnets on the out-Side of the filter would  do as well , if they were strong , but they won’t filter out the other metals (none ferrous) AMSOIL standard engine filters are 98.6 % efficient @ 15 microns & the bypass @ 2 micron -/- <> 25micron= 0.001 , l run both on our pick-up ! & have installed several for customers . THANKS again ! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Papa
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Now, did Manuel have the throttle held full down when you were cranking??  I've seen people crank it with the throttle closed and wonder why the reading were low.

Anyway, now he has a spare motor, he can build the original up, a valve grind would probably do wonders for the compression, although I have a feeling that if you're in Costa Rica the car is probably a rusty and he has no cash! 

With the internet these days most parts are available, its amazing what you can buy.

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Altezza/ what is your name & where is NSW  say  something about yourself . THANKS for the response,No Manuel did not have the throttle open , l had never heard of that , but it does make sense , I  re-did the test again this morning & squirted 4/5 squirts of 10/40 oil into each cyl , (just before screwing in the tester),(we took the carb off last night ) , = #1&#2 =180psi ,, #3=170,,, #4=145 .:;,, I just had to satisfy myself ! So maybe having the carb off helped here , quite the diff ,,, so looks like rings + valves + bearings ! I think he is planing on just selling both of these motors for scrap , but l am going to TRY to convince him not to do that , but rather ,— to a shop that rebuilds , because the crank looks good & is 50mm . I tried to convince him to just sell the whole car to a wrecking yard , because of its body condition , but it was his brothers car , that was killed in an accident 15yrs ago , & this is all he has of him , sentimentality comes before good reasoning !!  Not going to do anything with these motors until after l ckeck out this other one ,,,,then see how it runs !! YES rusty & NO CASH !!    I have the motor out & find BAD -pilot bearing ,- clutch,&  -throw out ,-front tranny seal , -motor mounts & steering components , as well as broken frame ,garbage welded to-geather ,& still broken , what a mess !! 

OH and how do l privet message you —- I am computer illiterate, & my wife usually does all that , but she can not figure it out either , HELP ! 

Edited by Papa
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OK, here is how to use private messages, PMs.  I've sent you one, so you just need to find it.

So, that motor still has a dud cylinder in #4, and I reckon it will be valves. Still it will run, and it sounds like Manuel needs to learn welding before worrying about motors. He should restore the car in his brother's honour.  Certainly I wouldn't scrap the motors, they're not making any more of them!

Forum PMs.jpg

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Back to this blog ! I would like to comment hear to all of those who have not participated  in our conversation (YET) ! , as to the helpfulness of those ,up to date , who have .  Do not hesitate to enter & ask 0r tell !! 
I thank both Kieth & Banjo, for your quick responce to try to help me ! I am currently plating & welding on the frame , taking out the loose grease zeros ,of the steering components , they are a 6mm thread & can be replaced with NPT style (tapered) that will screw in tight , & yet not mess up there thread . I have to buy some additional . Also a 10mm x 1.25 stippedout in the frame nut , will be re-threaded to 7/16-20 . When this is completed l will take the additional motor out of my truck , hang it , pull the pan , check bearings , & valve adj set if necessary, do dry & wet compression , to see if it is worth putting into the car . Let me know if you-all think this is a good plan or if you would alter it ?? Thanks Robert

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Well l thought l had submitted this one ,( the one above ,) a week ago but when l touched reply to-day it jumped up , so l re-submitted , & l have been sending , on e-mail to Keith , that has not been going through , wife sent pic of the front of the car & front of the tranny , that received no responce. 
I sent an update on the progress yesterday , & Dorothy tried to send more pictures , but no success , & the email said the receiver site did not receive ,& to-day that statise remains ! ——, So to-day l will post what l tried to e-mail yesterday . —-. I finally completed the welding  & gave it a coat of primer last-night . Mid day Friday l contemplated the tranny-front seal issue . Remembering what my dad used to say 
FOOLs  rush in where angels fear to tread! This is one of the reasons l try to learn all l can about something l am about to jump into , SO l looked at the tranny input shaft & the plate with 4 bolts & said what harm can it do to take it off and inspect . Nothing ventured , nothing gained . To my delight when l removed it , turned it over , there PRAISE the LORD was the seal, its # AE1306L. NGK 
Thanks  Robert.

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Ah, you're right- No photos yet.  I've just sent you an email, we will see if email works between us. Some people it doesn't, I can send them an email and it just never arrives, and of course I don't know if I fail to receive email from other people.  You can click and drag photos into Rollaclub pages, both forum pages like this one or PM pages, its at the bottom of this 'reply' box I'm writing in.

Cheers

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Hi Robert,                 

Quote

When this is completed l will take the additional motor out of my truck , hang it , pull the pan , check bearings , & valve adj set if necessary, do dry & wet compression , to see if it is worth putting into the car .

Old 3K motors, have a few areas you should check, if you are going to take the sump off, while it is suspended. The 3K motors all had a double timing chain, but the oil pressure fed tensioner, does wear, & the timing chain can stretch.  They have been known to slap on the inside of the cover, & in one extreme case I read of, wore right through the aluminium timing chain case.  If you have the sump off, it is worth removing the timing chain cover, & inspecting chain, tensioner, & sprockets.  If nothing else, the crankcase ventilation in this area is poor, & you will usually find a lot of hardened oil residue build up, that needs cleaning.

Also if the sump is attached to the block, with "studs" & nuts, rather than bolts, I would remove the studs on the bottom, of the timing chain cover, & replace with 6mm bolts.   It then allows removal of the timing chain cover in the future, without the need to remove or lower the sump, at the front.

Cheers

Banjo

Edited by Banjo
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