Ke70 ignition problem

[Vincent]

Hi friends,

Need help regarding my ke70 4k engine ignition problem.

1.my starter good check already 

2.ignition coil new 

3.distrubuter new electronic

All I change due to my starting engine problem.

When I start engine cranking but won't fire up..when I release key slowly then fire up engine start up..this also after so long cranking..so the problems is time key crank position engine won't start up..when I release key then engine start up..I change ignition key wire 1 set also still same...before this all ok even 1year not start also can start up...now go shop park for 5min and start again will suffer so long to start up...battery also drain due to long cranking..anyone can help me... Thanks..

 

 

 

 

 

[Banjo]

Hi Vincent,

                  Your issue is very simple.  When the ignition key is held in the start position, the 12 volts is connected, directly to the positive (+ve) terminal of the ignition coil.  When you let go of the ignition key, after the enginge has started, the 12 volts is then moved to the other end of the "ballast" resistor; the other end of which, is also connected to the positive (+ve) terminal of the ignition coil.  If the ballast resistor is open circuit, or is not fitted at all, then the engine will shut down, as there is no power to the coil, whilst the ignition is in the "run" position.

If you have a ballast resitor fitted, then short it out, & try starting the engine.  If it runs OK, the the ballast resistor is open circuit.   If the ballast resistor, is not fitted then connect the wire that would normally connect to the ballast resistor (if it was there), to the positive (+ve) of the ignition coil.  If that doesn't fix you problem, then come back to us, as the fault maybe elsewhere, between the ignition switch & ballast resistor; or it maybe a faulty ignition switch.

Let us know, how You go.

Cheers Banjo

Edited September 4, 2023 by Banjo

[Vincent]

Hi Banjo,

Thanks for fast reply. In my car don't have ballast resistor..it's 12v connect direct to coil since long time but can start normally even 2month not start at all..this prob occurred recently. 

Ignition switch have 6wire does need any wire loop together because if release key after cranking then only engine plug will spark.

Or explain me how ballast resistor work I'm still confused on that.. 

[altezzaclub]

KE70s run a 9V coil, so the ballast resistor cuts the voltage back to 9V when the car is driving.  However when starting there is extra wiring to by-pass the ballast resistor and feed full power straight to the coil. With the starter motor working the battery voltage drops to 9V, so the coil works perfectly. As you let the ignition key go back the wiring goes through the ballast resistor again to run the motor at 9V. 12V will burn the coil out eventually.

You might have a fault in the wire that was connected to the ballast resistor and now that has been deleted, who knows where that wire goes? The red wire goes from the ignition key 'Start' position to the coil positive. The 'run' wire is the black/orange one that goes to the ballast resistor. Follow those two wires and let us know what you find.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by altezzaclub

[Vincent]

 

My car using electronic distributor not contact point version..so do I still need use ballast resistor? Just wanna confirmation..only start up engine is my problems even cold or hot engine..after start up my engine never turn off all going well can run smoothly until I turn off my key...last time all good now only trigger this problem when start just cranking only not fire up..when release key then only fire up engine..like kind of reverse wiring..

[Banjo]

Hi Vincent,

                  I gather you've had this problem/issue, with "starting the engine" for some time.  You thought it was the points or distributor, so you fitted a new electroninic distributor.  That didn't fix it, so you thought it might be the ignition coil, so you replaced that.  Maybe I've got the sequence wrong, & maybe you changed the coil before the distributor, or maybe at the same time.  However, none of these changes fixed the original issue.  Altezzaclub has explained perfectly above why you need a ballast resistor.  Do you not remember ever seeing one fitted to your engine, whilst you've owned it ?  Here is a picture of a typical one.

When you hold the key in the start position, two things happen.

1.  12V is fed to the starter relay, which closes its contacts, which contect the battery +ve terminal to the starter motor, which starts it cranking the engine.  At the same time the ignition switch sends +12V to the +ve terminal of the distributor coil.  Despite the coil being designed to operate on 9Volts,  it will start, because the battery voltage usually drops several volts during cranking of the starter motor, with it's heavey load. 

I suspect that whilst you are cranking the engine, there is no 12V applied to the coil +ve terminal.   You can check this by putting a test light between the coil +ve terminal, & ground/earth/chassis, & have someone turn the key & crank the motor.

If you prove my asumption is correct, then the problem, is either a wiring error, at sometime, or the ignition barrel, has gone faulty.  Alternatively, someone removed the ballast resistor previous to you acquiring the car, & has modified the wiring incorrectly.

Cheers Banjo

Edited September 6, 2023 by Banjo

[altezzaclub]

"or the ignition barrel, has gone faulty."

Yeah, could be. The wiring diagram shows the wire to the coil on cranking to be separate to the wire to the starter solenoid. If the contacts in the ignition barrel are burnt out for the coil wire, it will crank and crank but not start until the key is released and it catches on the 'run' wiring.  The next time that contact might work and it starts perfectly.

"My car using electronic distributor not contact point version..so do I still need use ballast resistor?"

Check if that Bosch coil you bought is a GT40 or a GT40R. The R means it needs a ballast resistor, the other Bosch GT40 doesn't.

Did the moving baseplate of the dizzy move easily and look lubricated when you had the dizzy apart? They do get seized up over the years and stop the ignition advancing correctly.

Edited September 6, 2023 by altezzaclub

[Banjo]

Quote

If you prove my asumption is correct, then the problem, is either a wiring error, at sometime, or the ignition barrel, has gone faulty.  Alternatively, someone removed the ballast resistor previous to you acquiring the car, & has modified the wiring incorrectly.

 

My best guess, is, that the two wires that come from the ignition barrel switch, to the coil +ve terminal, & the  other end of the "ballast resistor", have been reversed.  That would, I believe; create exactly the engine actions you describe, whilst trying to start.  Either fit a ballast resistor, & wire up as per the wiring diagram, if your ignition coil, is a 9 volt model.

If you have a "faulty" inition barrel switch, this can be checked out, without taking out the barrel switch.  Take the two wires that come from the ignition switch to the coil & ballast resitor;  & connect each of them to a small 12 volt lighting bulb, with the other side of the bulbs grounded to the chassis. Watch the lights, whilst turning the ignition switch to the start position, & then release to the run position, & it will advise if there are any issues.  Both lights should come on, in the start position, & only one light on in the "run" position.  The wire to the bulb that goes off, when the key is released to the run position, is the wire that should be connected to the +ve termininal of a 9V ignition coil.  

Hope that assists.

Cheers Banjo

 

[Vincent]

Hi friends thanks for suggestions.

Above ignition set I change already but aftermarket...I don't know the wiring was correct or not..I just plug n play. Some wireman at my place says maybe wiring backwards..but I'm not modify yet anything because I want original.

1st my distributer burn no spark for my plugs...so I change it can start normally...then 2nd I saw coil look very older & some spark missing...so I changed coil mitsubishi Japan 12v. 3rd I change ignition switch as per above picture..due to my foreman told electronic distributer no need ballast resistor then they take out and direct +ve wire connect to +ve coil terminal no any wire modified.

Since 1year all good no worries suddenly this things happened..I can't find out.

Now as u all said I reconnect back my ballast resistor and see.

Does below diagram correct or not?

And if can someone help me send some video how to check any faulty so that I can follow by video... because your message above all I can read but less understand...so pls help me up...tq.

[altezzaclub]

"I changed coil mitsubishi Japan 12v."

OK, if you fitted a 12V coil you don't need a ballast resistor. That diagram above is for a Petronix wire, and its not how Toyota did it, but it doesn't matter for you.

"Since 1year all good no worries suddenly this things happened"

The system you have on the car was working, so all the components fit together properly, but something has worn out. The car runs OK when its running, so coil & distributor are fine. It doesn't start properly so the problem is most likely in the key. Find that problem!

Check out the key operation like Banjo said, take the plug off the key wiring and see that you get power going to the coil on both "ignition" and "start" positions. Maybe the new key wiring has burnt out. Make sure you know which wire has 12V power when you have the key in "run" position, and which has 12V power in the "start" position.

If you have a test light with a needle probe you can push it into the plug while its in the car and it will light up if there's 12V.  If not, I use a multimeter and unplug the key wiring so I can read ohms on each wire.

 

Either way, you need to understand how power flows through that ignition set above.

You need it wired like this-

 

The black and orange wire (IG2) that went to the ballast now needs to be connected straight to the coil positive. That gives power when you are driving, and I'm sure that's how they changed your wiring when you fitted the new 12V coil.

The red wire (ST2) powers the coil when you are cranking the engine. That also needs to go to the coil positive, like it always has.

So make sure the cranking and running wires are joined and go to the coil positive.

If the new wiring contacts have burnt out you should fit a relay beside the coil. This means the key barrel wiring carries less power and won't burn in the future.

 

Cheers

[Vincent]

9 minutes ago, altezzaclub said:

"I changed coil mitsubishi Japan 12v."

OK, if you fitted a 12V coil you don't need a ballast resistor. That diagram above is for a Petronix wire, and its not how Toyota did it, but it doesn't matter for you.

"Since 1year all good no worries suddenly this things happened"

The system you have on the car was working, so all the components fit together properly, but something has worn out. The car runs OK when its running, so coil & distributor are fine. It doesn't start properly so the problem is most likely in the key. Find that problem!

Check out the key operation like Banjo said, take the plug off the key wiring and see that you get power going to the coil on both "ignition" and "start" positions. Maybe the new key wiring has burnt out. Make sure you know which wire has 12V power when you have the key in "run" position, and which has 12V power in the "start" position.

If you have a test light with a needle probe you can push it into the plug while its in the car and it will light up if there's 12V.  If not, I use a multimeter and unplug the key wiring so I can read ohms on each wire.

 

Either way, you need to understand how power flows through that ignition set above.

You need it wired like this-

 

The black and orange wire (IG2) that went to the ballast now needs to be connected straight to the coil positive. That gives power when you are driving, and I'm sure that's how they changed your wiring when you fitted the new 12V coil.

The red wire (ST2) powers the coil when you are cranking the engine. That also needs to go to the coil positive, like it always has.

So make sure the cranking and running wires are joined and go to the coil positive.

If the new wiring contacts have burnt out you should fit a relay beside the coil. This means the key barrel wiring carries less power and won't burn in the future.

 

Cheers

Brother I think we got it as u said..

All u said above correct my car run engine very nice never ever stop middle way...only when start up problem just cranking only...last time single crank engine startup ready..

Black and orange (IG2) previous to ballast resistor...now after change coil the wireman direct put in +ve coil 

But the red wire (ST2) in my car don't have before this..where I need to find out? At my coil only fit black&orange then from coil +ve one wire -ve one wire connect to distributor.

So I need find red wire to loop with black n orange wire...in +ve coil...can help from where I find this red wire then loop it together?..

 

 

[altezzaclub]

"But the red wire (ST2) in my car don't have before this..where I need to find out? "

You need to find it in your new ignition set. Two wires in that loom carries 12V into the ignition switch, and the other wires carry 12V out-

A-to the accessories that work when you turn the ignition on, the ACC wire. Blue/red wire on the car.

B-to the fuses that work everything with ignition lights on, the IG1. Black/yellow wire on car.

C-to the coil +ve, the ST2. The red wire.

D-to the starter motor solenoid, ST1. The black/white wire.

E-to the ballast resistor, IG2. The black/orange wire.

 

Originally the car had power going into that ignition switch from the white wire, AM1, and one part of it from a brown wire AM2.

That makes seven wires going to the key, which is what your new ignition set has.

They might not be exactly right for your car, Japanese, Australian, European or SE Asian could be all slightly different, but your new ignition set does the same job. So if it plugs into the wiring under your dash with the colours listed above, make sure power comes out from ST2 and IG2.  Then make sure it gets out to the coil positive, one as you have the key turned on and the other as you crank it.   You'll have to disconnect the coil positive and measure the wire voltage as you turn the key on and as you crank it.

The brown wire may have a burned out fusible link at the battery, so check that first. I have had bad connections in those links before, sometimes work, sometimes die.

Edited September 7, 2023 by altezzaclub

[Vincent]

30 minutes ago, altezzaclub said:

"But the red wire (ST2) in my car don't have before this..where I need to find out? "

You need to find it in your new ignition set. Two wires in that loom carries 12V into the ignition switch, and the other wires carry 12V out-

A-to the accessories that work when you turn the ignition on, the ACC wire. Blue/red wire on the car.

B-to the fuses that work everything with ignition lights on, the IG1. Black/yellow wire on car.

C-to the coil +ve, the ST2. The red wire.

D-to the starter motor solenoid, ST1. The black/white wire.

E-to the ballast resistor, IG2. The black/orange wire.

 

Originally the car had power going into that ignition switch from the white wire, AM1, and one part of it from a brown wire AM2.

That makes seven wires going to the key, which is what your new ignition set has.

They might not be exactly right for your car, Japanese, Australian, European or SE Asian could be all slightly different, but your new ignition set does the same job. So if it plugs into the wiring under your dash with the colours listed above, make sure power comes out from ST2 and IG2.  Then make sure it gets out to the coil positive, one as you have the key turned on and the other as you crank it.   You'll have to disconnect the coil positive and measure the wire voltage as you turn the key on and as you crank it.

The brown wire may have a burned out fusible link at the battery, so check that first. I have had bad connections in those links before, sometimes work, sometimes die.

Means when I measure IG2 wire will 12v or test light will on and when crank ST2 will light on or both on light in test light when I crank?

Brown wire means AM2 right? Connect to IG2?

If in the coil side I couldn't find out ST2 red wire means can I check below dash ignition key set that wire with voltage has means can I direct bring that wire connect to +ve on coil & try start up?

Edited September 7, 2023 by Vincent

[altezzaclub]

"Means when I measure IG2 wire will 12v or test light will on and when crank ST2 will light on or both on light in test light when I crank?"

I think only one at a time originally, so they had to 'swap' when you let the key come back after cranking. Now with a 12V coil you can have both together.

"Brown wire means AM2 right? Connect to IG2?"

AM2 is the name of the part of the ignition barrel, it is the circuit and contacts that joins the brown wire to the black/orange wire inside the barrel, so all one wire really.

"If in the coil side I couldn't find out ST2 red wire means can I check below dash ignition key set that wire with voltage has means can I direct bring that wire connect to +ve on coil & try start up?"

Yes, you want the ST2 and IG2 points both to go to coil +ve, whether in the red wire and the black/orange wire together or just one of them. The dash loom that your new ignition set plugs into should have the right colours if it is original, 5wires of blue/red, black/yellow, red,black/white and black/orange, all in the dash plug. So long as 12V goes down the red & black/orange and gets to the coil +ve you should be fine.

Let us know what is on the coil positive right now, and if the red and black/orange wires are there. There are a few wires coming out of the engine bay wall by the coil.

Edited September 7, 2023 by altezzaclub

[Vincent]

1 hour ago, altezzaclub said:

"Means when I measure IG2 wire will 12v or test light will on and when crank ST2 will light on or both on light in test light when I crank?"

I think only one at a time originally, so they had to 'swap' when you let the key come back after cranking. Now with a 12V coil you can have both together.

"Brown wire means AM2 right? Connect to IG2?"

AM2 is the name of the part of the ignition barrel, it is the circuit and contacts that joins the brown wire to the black/orange wire inside the barrel, so all one wire really.

"If in the coil side I couldn't find out ST2 red wire means can I check below dash ignition key set that wire with voltage has means can I direct bring that wire connect to +ve on coil & try start up?"

Yes, you want the ST2 and IG2 points both to go to coil +ve, whether in the red wire and the black/orange wire together or just one of them. The dash loom that your new ignition set plugs into should have the right colours if it is original, 5wires of blue/red, black/yellow, red,black/white and black/orange, all in the dash plug. So long as 12V goes down the red & black/orange and gets to the coil +ve you should be fine.

Let us know what is on the coil positive right now, and if the red and black/orange wires are there. There are a few wires coming out of the engine bay wall by the coil.

Sorry I'm away from my house. I'm outstation for work in another state. Coming Saturday I will be at my home and send the correct color of ignition switch 5 wire. Moreover I'm sure at my coil +ve black/orange wire only fix...no red wire.