Ke1x Starter Issues And How To Fix It :)

[camerondownunder88]

Hi,

On my KE15 I purchased a set of real pacemaker extractors :dance: These extractors are the same for every KE1X model so they SHOULD bolt straight on. well not quite :bash: I found when bolted on they didnt sit flush. Upon investigating I found the cylinder 1 runner hit my starter motor.

 

Now KE1X starter motors the solenoid sticks out away from the motor. See pic below:

(I cracked the back of the solenoid this is not from heat..LOL)

 

These starters are also heavy and have less power than the later model starters so it is a good thing to change them.These have 0.6KW. Later models have 0.8 KW.

 

Now if you run a later model gear box in your KE1X or KE2X then you will have no issues about bolting on a later model starter.

 

If you have the old gear box the holes in the gear box the bolts go through to attachteh starter are smaller. Now there are 2 options to bolting up a later model starter in this case.

 

1. You can drill out both holes in the gear box to take larger bolts.

2. You can get thin shank LONG bolts and have them lose in the starter holes but at least it is clamped up.

 

I used a mixture of both. Why Ill tell you now.

Now first ill need a few different starter motors to show this so select some from your collection.

 

Now with later model starter motors there are 3 main differences:

 

1 The solenoid is nearly on top of the top bolt hole for the starter.

2. The holes for bolt holes for the starter are threaded. So bolts screw into the starter. Early Starter motors don't have a thread and use a nut.

3. Later ones (some) have a heat shield.

 

So with this in mind I chose one with a heat shield. Now this will decide what method you use to attach it. SOME late model starters have a casting mark that hangs over the end of the top bolt hole in the starter so you can't use the thin long bolt and nut option on these. SOME how ever don't have this casting piece so you can use the long nut and bolt method on top and bottom. The stater that had the casting tank on the top hole of mine also had the heat shield so since I wanted this heat shield I used the drill method to make it fit.

 

Below is a low quality pic can't really see it well but it shows the casting left over metal behind the hole:

 

So what I did was decided to use a long bolt in the bottom hole. This hole there are no obstructions so it slid right through and I didn't have to modify the gear box hole.

 

Now for the top hole grab a 10mm drill bit and you need to enlarge the top hole in the gear box for the starter. I could do this in the car JUST so probably best to do out of the car. Pic below of tight squeeze with drill:

 

I also used the mount as a guid it held my cheap drill perfectly.

 

Also DON'T drop metal particles/swarf into the clutch housing. I stopped here to get a rag as I did initially forget to get one for the hole.

 

Now all you have to do is remove the drill and grab you starter and put the late model thicker bolt through the top and screw it into the starter and then get you long skinny nut and just use a nut and bolt method on the bottom hole.

 

Now the starter has a machine flange on the end of it that makes it sit really snugly into the backing plate of the engine to align it. So if you use the 2 long bolt method you don't have to worry about alignment as it will all slid perfectly into place.

 

I forgot to get a finished product picture of what I did but ill try to get one tomorrow.

 

Cheers

Cameron

[Medicine_Man]

Surely it is also possible to swap the drive end of the starter with the one that is going to suit the right angle to clear the extractors? most bosch stuff should be interchangable..

[Felix]

Interesting.

 

I never had problems with mine and I run the early nippondenso short ke1x starters.... My solenoid sits straight up. I am also running pacemaker extractors. I have 5k with a ke70 5 speed though, if that makes any difference.

Edited December 30, 2007 by Felix

[camerondownunder88]

Hi,

Justin the first Idea I tried well though about was to change the drive housing. Why this wont work is the drive housing has the 2 bolt holes cast in it. One at 10mm and threaded the others smaller and non threaded. So changing this would be of no help :dance:

 

Felix very interesting that yours wont hit. BUT how much clearance do you have between starter and the extractors?

Also in your picture is that your 5 speed gear box? If it is they had the 10mm bolt hole so you wouldn't of found this an issue as yours would of bolted straight up.

 

 

Also Felix in all my KE1X part manuals it lists the 2 different starters ke1X cars came with. Both are nippondenso and both have the solenoid pointing out more and not sitting more verticle. The only difference in the starters are one is 0.6KW and other one is 0.8 KW. The one in your picture looks like a newer model starter. I have an original KE1X starter there a bit longer and heavier. Also KE1X starters all have the smaller hole and no thread in the starter and they use a nut to hold the bolt in.

 

In your picture it looks like the starter is a late model nippondenso item. As late model nippondenso starters all usually have the solenoid pointing more up and threaded holes.

 

But Ill show you all this when your next at my place Felix.

 

Also a spare ke20 gear box I have out of an early one also runs smaller holes so I think this issue could also apply to early KE2X cars. As I got the motor and starter with this KE20 he used a long thin bolt to go thought he starter and attach it. But it had a replacement new starter with out the casting dag on the top hole so the bolt went through.

 

Cheers

Cameron

[Felix]

Now I'm not totally sure what they are from.

 

I had a look at my ke15 and ke16 and they both have the same starter with the more upright solenoid. I have at least 2 finger widths clearance between the solenoid and the nearest extractor pipe with the pacemakers on the ke15. The ke16 has Perry (I think, the brand tag fell off) 4 into 1s which have HEAPs of clearance.

 

I had a look in the shed at my spares and I have 4 starters. 2 have the more angled solenoid, and 2 have the more upright one. The more upright ones have larger threaded mounting holes. They are all the same length. If I can find my camera I'll get some pics.

 

I am not totally sure what they belong to... I don't think they are ke30 ND ones, as I'm pretty sure they were longer?? But who knows it has been about 10 years since I last played with ke30's. From memory I have some longer ND starters in a trailer of parts at my parents about 40 mins away so I can't easily compare them.

 

Anyway, I just found my camera. I'll take a couple of pics of the starters I have at hand.

 

 

Doug

Edited December 30, 2007 by Felix

[Felix]

Well just took a few pics. In the first pic it shows both types of starters I have here. The angled solenoid ones are in the top row. The other type are the same as in my ke15 and ke16. All are ND.

 

Something interesting I realised when looking at the starters, is that I used to run an angled solenoid starter (circled, small holes, no thread) at one stage with my pacemakers. This starter I burnt out when I had a pressure plate semi-self destruct behind my old warm 4k. The starter is a bit chewed around the drive pinion from bits of metal that jammed the flywheel, and seized it... Hence me burning the starter out trying to crank the motor over. LOL!

 

I'm thinking maybe there could have been different models of pacemakers. Pretty sure mine had a ke30 tag on them when I bought them from a wreckers. This was over ten years ago.... I did have to cut the pipe at the collector and get a new dump pipe made up to clear the floor pan in my ke15.

[camerondownunder88]

Hi,

Yeah I think KE30 extractors "angle out more" As I find my pace maker ones I got new actually hit the starters with angled solenoids and A) the heat would ill it ASAP and B) the starter wouldn't let the extractors bolt up flush.

 

But with later model starters with the more verticle solenoid there is the same about 2 fingers width between it. Ill see if I can get pictures of my new starter I put in and the extractor clearance.

 

But that starter that is burnt out did it ever come close or touch the extractors? As runner 1 touches my starter with the old style. I am running 4-1 pacemaker extractors 2 inch I think the pipe is off top of my head.

 

Cheers

Cameron

[Medicine_Man]

Bottom right is a KE70 starter, Can tell by the stud for the heatshield..

[camerondownunder88]

Oh also should add for the upgrade I used a KE70 starter newer, heat sheild etc..LOL

[Felix]

No when I had the angled solenoid starter (probably ke10), the pipe didn't touch. From what I remember it was very close though.

 

Are ke70 bosch or ND? All the starters in the pics I put up are ND.

 

I thought ke70's had longer bosch starters.

Edited December 30, 2007 by Felix

[Medicine_Man]

Pretty sure they are ND..

[Felix]

I just had a look in a haynes ke30 manual. It seems they came with both the ND starters and bosch ones. From the pics the bosch ones were longer. Maybe they are what I have sitting in my trailer of parts?

Edited December 30, 2007 by Felix

[camerondownunder88]

As far as I know ND starters with heat shields came out only on KE70. Bosch ones that is what I once had on my KE30 I upgraded to the ND one shorter lighter more power.

 

Ill up load a pic soon of my extractors bolting it all up now.

 

Cameron

Edited December 30, 2007 by camerondownunder88

[Clapped out]

 

The one on the right shouldn't have clearance issues, its a far smaller one, maybe one like this may get you out of trouble,

 

cheers phatke30!

 

ps. they are both rolla starters.

[camerondownunder88]

^^^ I like the one on the right. Thin and long. Is that a K motor starter? or is it one that fits from another model? Is there a part number on that one?

 

Am interested.

 

Cameron