Ke70 Spring/shock Compo

[Sidewinder]

Hey all,

 

after a good week of searching through here, ke70.com, and the faq, i still havent been able to find a straight answer to the following question;

 

is there any DECENT suspension i can upgrade to with a simple upgrade of shocks, springs and bushes?

 

every guide/thread/message in a bottle i read seems to insist that ae86/corona struts are a bare minimum upgrade...which I'm kinda finding it hard to believe

 

I don't want super hard dorifto dori dori suspension, but i hate body roll, and would like to be able to throw the back end out if the time and place calls for it... mainly thought, i want a nice setup to enjoy hillclimbing on the local mountain rd

 

i have a similar question about brakes too... is there any decent brake upgrade that will work with the standard ke70 suspension? also how important are big wheels? i have 13" wheels atm (wider than stock) but I'm worried about sidewall flex?

 

sorry for all the questions, any help would be greatly appreciated

[TE278U]

best upgrade for you in my opinion would be a beefy set of sway bars.

 

this will eliminate your body roll, and be the cheapest upgrade, and depending on the condition of your current springs and shocks, you may not have to replace those.

 

nolathane bushes will help responsiveness in your suspension as it gives less than rubber. ride quality will suffer marginally.

 

i have heard of a backyarder/oldschool trick that involved mixing used diff oil /hydraulic oil with a percentage of shocker fluid to get a much stiffer shock absorber (thicker fluid thru same size valve = stiffer)

 

i haven't tried it, and it won't work with gas inserts.

 

springs control how high your car sits, and they absorb and rebound according to the road surface. your shocks only control how fast the spring compresses and rebounds.

 

thicker wire or less coils on your springs = harder rider and firmer suspension.

 

my thoughts would be first do the swaybars, drive along your favorite twisties, and measure your smile, if it's big enough, leave it.

 

next would be nolathane bushes on swaybar mounts and ends and caster rods.

 

go for a drive on the same roads each time you modify something, and you'll be able to notice the results immediately.

 

 

 

note: suspension setup for grip driving and for drift are completely opposite in some areas, so you need to be able to adjust from one to the other if you really want to do both with one car.

 

good tyres at the front with average tyres at the back will make oversteer / drift fun, but not much chop for quick driving on mountain roads without a few brown pants moments.

 

whatever you do with your suspension, always find a patch of private property to test your limits where you're not going to hurt yourself or your car before you take it on the street.

finding your limit on the street can really f you and your car up.

 

have fun. :D

[Redwarf]

Whereas I subscribe to the polar opposite thought. I don't touch swaybars, if at all, until I have shocks, springs and anything else I want to do out of the way. You change one item, se if you like it, see what it does, then move to the next item. That way you can tune the suspension knowing exactly what you have done.

 

I recommend not doing springs, shocks, bushes swaybars in one hit, because if it handles like a sack of shit, you don't know what is causing it.

[LittleRedSpirit]

best upgrade for you in my opinion would be a beefy set of sway bars.

 

this will eliminate your body roll, and be the cheapest upgrade, and depending on the condition of your current springs and shocks, you may not have to replace those.

 

nolathane bushes will help responsiveness in your suspension as it gives less than rubber. ride quality will suffer marginally.

 

i have heard of a backyarder/oldschool trick that involved mixing used diff oil /hydraulic oil with a percentage of shocker fluid to get a much stiffer shock absorber (thicker fluid thru same size valve = stiffer)

 

i haven't tried it, and it won't work with gas inserts.

 

springs control how high your car sits, and they absorb and rebound according to the road surface. your shocks only control how fast the spring compresses and rebounds.

 

thicker wire or less coils on your springs = harder rider and firmer suspension.

 

my thoughts would be first do the swaybars, drive along your favorite twisties, and measure your smile, if it's big enough, leave it.

 

next would be nolathane bushes on swaybar mounts and ends and caster rods.

 

go for a drive on the same roads each time you modify something, and you'll be able to notice the results immediately.

 

 

 

note: suspension setup for grip driving and for drift are completely opposite in some areas, so you need to be able to adjust from one to the other if you really want to do both with one car.

 

good tyres at the front with average tyres at the back will make oversteer / drift fun, but not much chop for quick driving on mountain roads without a few brown pants moments.

 

whatever you do with your suspension, always find a patch of private property to test your limits where you're not going to hurt yourself or your car before you take it on the street.

finding your limit on the street can really f you and your car up.

 

have fun. :D

 

If the backyarder/oldschool trick is reoiling the shocks, I don't see anyone doing that in their backyard. In general thats how motorcycle damping is reset, and the principles I'm sure will apply to automobile suspension. Not an easy or cheap thing to do. Most cheap shocks aren't rebuildable either.

 

As stated a bazillion times already, there are very few decent types of shock absorbers available for the smaller size ke70 struts. You will want to use AE86 struts or XT 130 or T18 units to achieve the ability to fit decent shocks in the front. Once swapped you can have Konis, TRD, BilStein, Tokicos, etc.

 

If you are happy with Gabriel or Monroe inserts then leave them alone.

 

You do realise Corona struts give a slight brake upgrade too? Very important!

 

Try VB Commodoore shocks in the rear, they will let you cut off a couple of coils and still have the springs captive and safe. Cut standards are all you really need for a grippy rear end.

 

I agree with Redwarf on the swaybar issue. Change springs and shocks first and see what you think of it.

[Sidewinder]

Thanks for the replies guys,

 

I forgot all about swaybars lol

 

What I will probably end up doing is put std strut type shocks in to get the car roadworthy again...and then if its not good enough for me ill attempt ae86 coilovers, brakes etc

 

I'm heading out to my folks place today (yayy public holiday :D) to muck about with my parts car/basher ke70 to teach myself how to change a shock absorber, as I'd like to do as much of the work on my car as I can.

 

Is changing the bushes something is should be able to do? What tools will I need? And does anyone have a list of which ones to ask for? No one seems to sell a kit up here

 

Once again sorry for all the questions..I'm still a 'LOL NUB' when it comes to suspension

[ke70_sa]

SIDEWINDER:

 

this looks like exactly what i want to do to mine ke70.

 

bushes arent hard to do, you can get a fancy ass press or you can just use a clamp at home that with a metal tube on the other side to allow the bush to get pushed all the way through. if you want to do this though...you might as well get a pair of corona xt130 LCAs with the ball joint and all and change the bushes at home as it will be a vast improvement on the ke70 std LCAs. this wont cost you alot either, i think i picked my bushes up for 25 and my LCAs for 50 so one you put them in though you will need a realignment though, so make sure of that.

 

I'm in the same boat as you with "what to actually get" to feel the improvement, as well as not spend a shit load.

 

i made the mistake of buying before thinking, so i currently have a pair of 86 coilovers with 7 kg springs which i don't think I'm going to need!

 

 

PLUS..

 

EVERYONE ELSE WITH KNOWLEDGE

 

maybe to add to the noob questions, as I'm one too..

 

i was thinking of the corona strut upgrade, as ive heard they are way better than the 86 strut, plus they have twin piston brakes. but can you actually just buy the corona strut leg, steering arm, hub and brakes and that will bolt STRAIGHT onto the ke70 spring seat? or what needs to be modified for the upgrade?

 

 

cheers

[thomasz]

Thanks for your advertising, can you help me about this problem.

[LilSlvrRolla]

i was thinking of the corona strut upgrade, as ive heard they are way better than the 86 strut, plus they have twin piston brakes. but can you actually just buy the corona strut leg, steering arm, hub and brakes and that will bolt STRAIGHT onto the ke70 spring seat? or what needs to be modified for the upgrade?

 

You just need a shorter insert if your going low (ST185 celica for example) and a spring made to fit from there, maybe a corona equivalent master cyl for the brakes? And or braided lines.

 

Plus if you ever want to go overboard with the brakes in the future, the Pug/Hilux/Corona brake upgrade bolts on with a little work.

 

One thing that suprised me, I bought a pair of EA rear springs, cut them down just a fraction lower than factory. Stiffend up the rear a heap (from completly standard suspension) $25 for springs is good for a laugh for a while, made the back end all stiff and slidey but you get over that bit after a while cos the fronts still slopy lol :P

[LittleRedSpirit]

Corona struts will be heavier too. AE86 are a bit lighter.

[LilSlvrRolla]

Corona struts will be heavier too. AE86 are a bit lighter.

 

Haha yeah I should have mentioned that, how could I forget. Mine weigh a tonne (setup as either Hilux/Pug or in the original corona form). But I'm still yet to compare them to the original KE70 struts fully assembled. Though I don't think there too far off.

[ke70_sa]

You just need a shorter insert if your going low (ST185 celica for example) and a spring made to fit from there, maybe a corona equivalent master cyl for the brakes? And or braided lines.

 

Plus if you ever want to go overboard with the brakes in the future, the Pug/Hilux/Corona brake upgrade bolts on with a little work.

 

One thing that suprised me, I bought a pair of EA rear springs, cut them down just a fraction lower than factory. Stiffend up the rear a heap (from completly standard suspension) $25 for springs is good for a laugh for a while, made the back end all stiff and slidey but you get over that bit after a while cos the fronts still slopy lol :P

 

where can you get springs made to suit? and is it an expensive process?

 

i already have a pair of coilovers on 86 struts, i just need to get 3 kg springs and some pads and they should be fine to go in... but would it be easier to sell up and go with the corona upgrade instead?

[LilSlvrRolla]

where can you get springs made to suit? and is it an expensive process?

 

i already have a pair of coilovers on 86 struts, i just need to get 3 kg springs and some pads and they should be fine to go in... but would it be easier to sell up and go with the corona upgrade instead?

 

The only spring quotes I got were from King Springs and spja, Lovells wouldn't give me a price. Kings want $260 a pair custom made to suit the corona perch, deliver within 10 days. spja wanted $200 last time I asked, but there was no guarantees that he could do it for me. Rather sell me coilovers because its easier than making the springs.

 

Might look into the idea of actually modifying the perch so I only have to put a KE70 spring in there? Bad idea anyone? (kings off the shelf lowered springs are 3kg or something if thats what you want)

 

If you sold the coilovers you have, you would probably have enough to do the corona/pug/hilux setup. There would deffinatly be someone willing to take them off your hands lol. But I guess that depends on there condition etc.

 

Don't quote me, but I reckon kings do a custom coilover spring to your spec for $200pair. If you want I can dig up that email with the prices (oh and I have all the prices and what I've spent on the Hilux/pug/rona upgrade there too and a damn lot of info on how to do it).

 

Sell your 7kg springs (lol I'd buy em if ther the right size and price). Grab some pads and you would have an easy upgrade there. I have no clue on what the braking abilitys of the AE86 front disc's are, from memory there only slightly bigger and ventilated. But you would have coilovers at least. And better braking ability's.

[ke70_sa]

the coilovers are a complete set up...

 

so why would i need springs to suit fitting the ke spring perch?

wouldnt i just rip the old strut out and put the coilover strut straight in?

[LilSlvrRolla]

the coilovers are a complete set up...

 

so why would i need springs to suit fitting the ke spring perch?

wouldnt i just rip the old strut out and put the coilover strut straight in?

 

Yes the AE86 coilover struts are a complete setup, which have by the sounds of it AE86 brakes attached. They "bolt" in with a little work if you go down that path.

 

Or

 

If you go down the corona path, the corona struts need a special spring made or conversion to coilovers because the corona came with a very large spring and upper perch that will not fit a KE70 ever, but your lucky enough to have your original factory perch which just happens to fit. So you make a spring that fits the KE upper and corona lower perch.

 

So a corona strut won't just bolt in. It needs modified parts and or modification. You only need the strut tube and brakes at the end of the day, not the corona suspension.

 

The corona option will let you put a massive set of brakes on if you ever need to as well. The corona option needs a bit of thinking, money and work.

 

Also you will need a pair of AE86 or XT130 corona steering arms so you can bolt your AE86 struts "straight" in. You will also need these if you choose to put corona struts in.

Edited June 12, 2008 by LilSlvrRolla

[derill]

You can go a little bit dodgy and slot in some xf falcon (front) springs into the corona strut and ke70 strut top. theyre fairly stiff but will need to be captive (ie used with st185 shocks). btw you will have to use sigma control arms otherwise you will have positive camber!