philbey Posted August 17, 2011 Report Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I have to disagree with this as it isn't really an accurate model I used a simple analogy so that we could avoid an overly complicated debate. The message remains the same, the fan in front or behind will have minimal impact. You haven't even got the motor to boiling point and I still don't think you even have a have a problem with your car. If it actually is boiling/overheating, I still maintain that it's not the location of your fan that is causing the issue. Edited August 17, 2011 by philbey Quote
Jackson Posted August 17, 2011 Author Report Posted August 17, 2011 Yeah I only fill up with 98 also a quick question I don't need to use something like flash lube do I? Hardened valves were introduced in like the 70's yeah? Quote
philbey Posted August 17, 2011 Report Posted August 17, 2011 I don't run flashlube on my 5K, pretty sure I asked my engine builder and he said it wasn't necessary. Quote
altezzaclub Posted August 17, 2011 Report Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) To expand the discussion- there are a couple of fans that the factory used, and some were shrouded and some not. Rob's KE55 has an electric fan sucking (behind the rad) with a shroud around it, but the shroud is "flat" with the fan up against the radiator. So any air going through hits a flat wall and has to move across to where the fan blades are and slip past them. To me that is much less efficient that the stock shroud which is cone-shaped as the stock fan sits 80mm away from the back of the rad at the front of the blades, and the shroud goes to the back of the blades which is 120mm behind the rad. We had our car heat up two summers ago on a trip past Dubbo on a 30deg+ day, so I went over everything carefully. Nothing was wrong, but when I stripped the motor a year later I cleaned the rust out of the block. We have had no cooling worries since, it never reaches halfway up the gauge, and that is without the shroud fitted. I'd already cleaned up some of the pile of rusty flakes before I took this photo. All done with a bit of wire and screwdrivers. Edited August 18, 2011 by altezzaclub Quote
philbey Posted August 18, 2011 Report Posted August 18, 2011 Yep, a rear mount shrouded electric fan is the ideal setup. The longer and more conical the shroud, the more efficient it will be. But in reality, there's no point going crazy with shrouding etc. Interestingly my 10 inch front mounted fan moves a hell of a lot of air; When it's sitting for a while, if you put a hand on the back of the radiator it is amazing the temperature difference between the cooled portion and the hotspots in the corners. One day I'll buy an IR thermometer and measure the differences. Quote
ke70dave Posted August 18, 2011 Report Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) for what its worth i never saw more than 83-85 degrees on my 4k, unless i let it idle for an extended period of time. even charging up a mountain laboring the hell out of the poor engine, it didn't really get much hotter, maybe up to 87-90. has anyone questioned the temp gauge? and where are you taking these readings from? Edited August 18, 2011 by ke70dave Quote
Jackson Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Posted August 19, 2011 Well further testing has shown that the problem is still there... I have flushed it out, appeared to help a little. Taken the fan off, appeared to help a little. Lifted the radiator back up, didn't seem to do much. So I am kinda unsure of where to go from here... Any pointers? Quote
philbey Posted August 19, 2011 Report Posted August 19, 2011 First up, what size is your radiator? It may just be a little small. What sort of condition is it in? Are the fins all open and allow air flow? Are you running coolant? Although I've never had a problem with it on my K engines, are you sure you don't have trapped air (not a common issue) Given that it's easy and cheap to do, I would also suggest you replace your thermostat (even if tested) And as asked previously; what sort of gauge do you have, how old is it, is it mechanical or electrical, is it a quality item or OEM. Given that you aren't actually boiling, you might simply have a gauge that reads higher than reality. Quote
altezzaclub Posted August 19, 2011 Report Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) Did you flush the radiator from the bottom to the top?? Take off the rad cap & stick a thermometer into the radiator. Read the actual temp as it idles for 15minutes and compare it to the gauge. I keep a 100deg thermometer for this sort of thing, always handy. Watch the water to see if it starts moving and swirling once the thermostat open and it warms up. If everything is stock, what can go wrong?... Temp sensor is lying- there is no problem Dash gauge is lying- there is no problem Rad has insufficient fins to get rid of heat.-no cooling between top & bottom Rad is too blocked to flow water well enough.- low flow Thermostat is not working- low flow Motor has rust bridging the water channels and blocking them.- low flow Pump has impellor worn away and can't pump very well.- low flow There is a blockage in a hose that is killing flow.- low flow Edited August 19, 2011 by altezzaclub Quote
Jackson Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Posted August 19, 2011 I bought a mechanical gauge from repco, I think it is Speco or something? It couldn't be more than a month old. Yes I am using coolant. The radiator is a little smaller then the stock 4K one and the condition is poor. Now I know that is then the obvious reason, but why has it suddenly become an issue when it wasn't a few weeks ago? The thermostat is new... Got a bleed valve to deal with trapped air. I back flushed the radiator and the block and I would have drank the water that came out of both. When you look in the radiator the flow appears to be pretty good, though I am not 100% sure what it should be. Quote
Evan G Posted August 19, 2011 Report Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) throw that mechanical gauge away and buy a autotechnica digital gauge from autobarn for $50!! Edited August 19, 2011 by Evan G Quote
Jackson Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Posted August 19, 2011 Why does a mechanical one have to be worse then an electrical one? Quote
Evan G Posted August 20, 2011 Report Posted August 20, 2011 the time the mechanical gauge shows 100 degrees, the engine will more likey be way more and milky oil cap brings all the boys to the yard. digital ftw Quote
Jackson Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Posted August 20, 2011 the time the mechanical gauge shows 100 degrees, the engine will more likey be way more and milky oil cap brings all the boys to the yard. digital ftw Well if that is true then my problem is worse then originally thought... Quote
altezzaclub Posted August 20, 2011 Report Posted August 20, 2011 Cheaper to get a thermometer- $6 http://www.hostdirect.com.au/showProduct/Kitchen/Kitchen+Accessories/5399/Coffee+Thermometer+-+150mm,+0+-+100+Degrees+Celcius Quote
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