tavnam Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hello All, My name is Mitch, I'm 22 a car salesman and qualified boilermaker. Ive owned a total of 6 ke70/ae71's. this will be my first conversion and most work will be completed by myself and a few of my mates(mechanics, auto elecs and fabby's) As you can tell by the heading I'm about to start the long process of building a 1uzfe powered KE70. the 1984 KE70 corolla S with aircon, was purchased for $1,000.00 of an elderly women who went blind and couldnt drive. She purchased it from Shepparton Toyota. where I'm currently employed as a salesman. The 1uzfe and auto cost $1000.00 n is out of a 1991 Toyota Celsior that had 130,000ks on it for when it was pulled from the bay. Ran smooth and the auto engaged perfectly. i plan on installing it in within the next 12 months and it will be driven on the road un-engineered. The motor will be running the standard ecu, it has had the aircon pump and power steering pump removed for a little more free revving. The Auto will eventually be shift kitted and a stally will be added. ill also run a conservative but hi-flowing exhaust. now the delema I am stuck with is what front suspension, brake and steering setup to run, as i want to have adjustability, cost effective replacement n upgrade parts just incase i want too attend track days and drag meets in the near future. I'm thinking of going with an s13 silvia (r31 control arms and r33 stud and brake upgrade) setup modified to suit the ke70. Most of these parts i am having a hard time sourcing.... as I'm trying to buy it as a complete package. Also thinking of going with a nissan r31 setup for the rear end with coil overs (also with r33 brake upgrade and a lsd centre) So this is my project. Alot of work i know. but thats half the fun. Let me know your thoughts and opinions as they would be appreciated...... and if any1 has any of the parts required or knows of some1 please let me know!!!! i currently own and drive a AE71 CS-X manual as my daily i also own; - 1984 KE70 Slant front 5 speed, 1.3 complete car. missing carby and rad - parts car does run minimal rust in rear gaurds i also have alot of spare doors, bonnets, boots, a diff, motor on kframe with all attached steering and suspenion brakes etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil86 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Whats the plan for the car? Weekend duties with drag or curcuit? I thinks its going to be quite difficult setting the car up for drag AND curcuit/drift as they are completely different. The auto box will be great for drag not so for the other two options (I think, correct me if I am wrong), considered going the tried and tested supra W box? You would already realise this but quite risky etc driving it on the road and I dare say nearly no chance of getting it engineered. On the brighter side it sounds like quite an interesting build and one thats been done but not too common, so you'll have some support wont be seeing a thousand others the same. With the sspension why skyline and 5 stud? Just stick to S13 and 4 stud, brakes and suspension are already overkill coming from a silvia. R31 diff shouldnt be too much of a hassle as its been done a number of times. Good luck, I'll be keeping an eye on this one :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 S13 Front end in a ke70 is rubbish though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil86 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Should be ok for drag though, got the adjustability and big brakes that he requires. Not sure what it would be like on a track, pretty harsh on the street I imagine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19914afc Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Good luck I'm putting one into my T18, fair bit of work involved, no room for brake booster, but that's the least of your problems, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavnam Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 yeah big job ahead, just want too build an all rounder that can be a fun weekend toy.. i drive it on the road until i come unstuck with the local road authority, as its only illegal if you get caught. not worried about harsh riding suspension and shit like that as its only a toy... for now I'm going to stick to an auto as i have 1 n its cost affective. Consider manual conversion down the track. want to get it in and running first.. Been reading alot into this nissan silvia s13 gear going into corolla's and i realise alot of people don't like it but the suspension will be adjustable. I have a very good suspension specialist in my area who will be more then capable of tuning and perfecting the s13 setup. the r33 upgrades are also a thing that will be done later down the track as s13 gear will work to start with... also 5 stud wheels are cheaper and more readily available and al my friends have R31, R33 and R34's couple GTR's aswell..... Plan is too complete this build to a high quality, learn some new skills and become alot more mechanical minded (automotive) along the way... PS.. i really appreciate peoples comments, inputs, critisisms and advice along the way as i will be posting a bit along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil86 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 yeah big job ahead, just want too build an all rounder that can be a fun weekend toy.. i drive it on the road until i come unstuck with the local road authority, as its only illegal if you get caught. not worried about harsh riding suspension and shit like that as its only a toy... for now I'm going to stick to an auto as i have 1 n its cost affective. Consider manual conversion down the track. want to get it in and running first.. Been reading alot into this nissan silvia s13 gear going into corolla's and i realise alot of people don't like it but the suspension will be adjustable. I have a very good suspension specialist in my area who will be more then capable of tuning and perfecting the s13 setup. the r33 upgrades are also a thing that will be done later down the track as s13 gear will work to start with... also 5 stud wheels are cheaper and more readily available and al my friends have R31, R33 and R34's couple GTR's aswell..... Plan is too complete this build to a high quality, learn some new skills and become alot more mechanical minded (automotive) along the way... PS.. i really appreciate peoples comments, inputs, critisisms and advice along the way as i will be posting a bit along the way. I can definitely understand waiting on the manual conversion. Is your plan top try and get it engineered and legal in the long run? If so I would recommend speaking to an engineer first as you're going to have close to zero chance of getting it engineered. If the plan is just to track the car once defected or if you can get someone who is "lenient" (read dodgey) to do inspections to clear defects then sweet as. Maybe speak to your suspension specialist first. Why do you want/need adjustability? (I'm not critisising, I have adjustable arms in my skyline). 5 stud wheels are cheaper and more common in larger sizes not the sizes your looking for on your rolla, you'll find plenty of cheap 4x114.3 wheels in good sizes and offsets to suit a KE70, also new wheels like rota's have great styles, good prices, good offsets for your application and come in 4x114.3. If you're looking to run 15 or 16 inch rims which suit KE70's perfect IMHO then you'll be hard pressed finding them in 5 stud other than stockers off other cars. Also bigger wheels means more expensive tyres too. Your call on the 5 stud and wheels thing but my advice stick to 4 stud and get some nice wheels (rota grid v IMHO). Just a bit of food for thought though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavnam Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 in regaurds to engineering the car it really doesnt interest me, as it can be quite an expensive excercise and you really can't get away with any form of enthusiastic driving on the roads these days anyways. plus i need my licence for my job... well the 5 wheels conversion is an idea I'm throwing around as i already own bout 8 sets of alloy rims from 13's all the way up to big 5 spoke 7.5" wide 17's aswell as a set of bluebird TRX wheels so its not a definate thing.... i realise there are alot of well priced aftermarket wheels out there for 4x114.3 atm. suspension adjustment isn't a must but my interests may change n the purpose that the vehicle is used for may change so having adjust will make it easier to set it up for different applications. and who doesnt love the ability to slam there car for a show'n'shine or meet??? STILL TRYING TO SOURCE SUSPENSION SETUP....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 the s13 vs 86 discussion comes up fairly often, http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/49714-ae86-or-s13/ That is an old topic where i give my experiences and oppinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavnam Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 ke70dave i did read through that topical discusion many weeks ago but alas I'm yet to find a full list of exactly what people are using in the ae86 corolla suspension setup cars. people only mention the main parts. and people also mention that they r more expensive to buy parts for and setup to the same standard as S13??? did a professional suspension garage have a chance too look at your setup and fine tune it???? not saying that you don't know what your doing but all people have a different way of problem solving.... i can easily find all the parts i need for the S13 conversion at a reasonable price and a substantial upgrade on brake stan parts to R33 spec is very cheap..... i want to get this part of the car right before even considering putting the motor in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavnam Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 now ive just received pricing on all the parts i need for a S13 conversion and it is as follows: 2x SR20det calipers $200, 2x discs $80, 1x front k-frame $50, 2x front hubs $120, 2x front LCA's $140 (but i will use R31), 2x caster arms $100, 2x caster arm brackets $80, 1x steering rack $120 and a set of TIEN adjustable (top and bottom, good condition) coilovers for $475. for a grand total of $1365.00 this quote was supplied by Paul at OSAKA IMPORTS @ 54 Parkhurst Dr, Knoxfield VIC 3180, Australia now i think thats a bit more then what i should be spending as you could buy a whole car for $2-3k... So some negotiation will be necessary.... THOUGHTS????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Nah no professional garage here. I was flatout affording petrol back then let alone garages doing work on my cars:P You might want to actually go through an analyse the costs of each option before you decide to make a decision based on cost, as i found that yes the s13 gear could be cheap, but getting good usable setup on the street was not easy. Now admitdly you are talking about a track car, but still, a good setup is a good setup either way i think. The main problem i had, was that these illusive "cheap s13 coilovers" are all pretty rubbish for anything other than driving on a billiard table. sure it was great to get sideways, but alot of the cheaper coilovers i have been exposed too (JIC, BC, other 'JDM' brands), have 2 things in common. Stiff as all buggery springs, coupled with over damped garbage shocks. I went through 3 sets untill i found something that would not rattle my teeth. keeping in mind with s13 gear you are putting coilvoers in that are designed for one car, and putting them into a car that weighs ~70% of the weight. Remember i was on a tight budget back then, spending $500 on a second hand pair of shocks was a few months worth of saving up. so when i failed to get something decent for the 3rd time, i decided to convert back to ae86 gear, and build my own coilovers with reasonable spring rates and good shocks. I managed to sell off all my s13 gear to almost pay for the 86stuff. it was about here i got a real job and had some disposable income.... I picked a spring rate of 6kg/mm, and i went with the cheapest brand name shocks i could get, some KYB excel G shocks designed for the rear of an MR2. I should have gone for a bit softer spring rate, and i coudl feel that ialthough the shocks were good, they did lack a bit of control under heavy bumps. (hey you can't expect miracles for $230/pair!) I also had brand new 86 discs (234x18mm), recod calipers with stainless steel inserts, new qfm hpx? pads, braided brake lines, new tie rod end, new rack ends, camber plates (adapted s13 ones to excel G shocks). it was a VERY smooth setup in both braking and suspension, it had a very sporty feel, yet was compliant. if i did it again (for street use) i think id start with 5kg, and definately up the shock quality. now back to the s13 gear, when i had it, i did make an attempt to measure the bump steer of the setup in the car (if you search ae86dc you may find my calculations), i can't remmebr what the results were, but it was like 1mm of either toe in or out, over ~200mm of travel, 100mm of bump 100mm of droop, which i thought was pretty good. persuming that zero was the goal. The way i woudl attack s13 if i went again, would be to forget any off the shelf coilovers. start with a s13 strut and convert it to coilover using a GOOD shock absorber (bilstein, koni,AVo, race orientated shocks) that would get rid of relying on 'cheap s13 coilovers'. i would also go straight to the R31 LCAs (i kept the s13 ones). The other downside of the s13, is that the nuckles weigh an absolute ton, i suspect that the unsprung mass of the s13 gear was a good 40% heavier than the ae86 gear. which in all forms of motorsport is definately a downside. now all of this is based on my oppinion, so i hope it is of some use in making your decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavnam Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Ok, well that gives me a good idea with what needs to be addressed in a s13 setup. Better spring rate 5-6kg spring rate and adjustable damper. Also remembering that i have a 'heavy' 1uzfe that will soften suspension!! N i homestly don't mind a stiff ride aslong as its got good feeling. Also mine will have the final suspension setup done by a professional that actually sets up racecars on the regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavnam Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The above comment is not me having a dig at you either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 no dramas, i was just an amateur working in his parents front driveway... oh also all the s13 coilovers i had were adjustable, but the range of adjustment was way out of the usable range for my little ke70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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