No ignition/issues

[Hayden.96]

Hey guys i have a ke55 but came with no motor do i got 3k out of a ke 10. Since i put the motor in i can't find the starter motor wire or anything to do with it I'm dumb founded. But on another note there is no ignition aswell, the reds don't come on but everything works, and also the power to the distributor only gets spark just a small turn after the second click on rhe ignition switch is that normal? Any help will be greatly appreciated!!! 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Hayden.96
Spelling errors

[Banjo]

Hi Hayden,

                   How you going ?   Getting to that time of the year when it starts to get chilly where you are. 

By "starter motor wire" are you referring to the big thick cable, between battery & starter motor, or the wiring to operate the starter motor solenoid ?

By "reds", I'm assuming you are referring to the oil & charge lights on the dash panel, which illuminate, as soon as you turn the ignition on. 

Look for power on the fuse panel near the drivers RHS knee, under the dash. Check all fuses. There is a fuse called engine or ignition.  Use a multimeter of a simple 12V test ligh, with one end connected to the chassis.

I would suggest that your KE55 is wired up for a a ballast resistor before the ignition coil. It could be missing or open circuit.  That would explain why you get power in the start position, but not in the "run" position of the ignition key. 

If you haven't got a Rolla manual with a wiring diagram at the back, then there are wiring diagrams here on the Rollaclub website. They look complicated, but the best way is just to sketch the area of the electrical system out, then work through it from battery to "device".  Don't forget the earths to chassis & back to the -ve terminal of the battery.

Cheers Banjo 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Banjo

[Hayden.96]

Thanks banjo i havent got a ballast resistor could that be the issue? I worked out the starter motor issue but the dizzy only gets spark when its turning over on the start position but as soon as i back the key off it loses spark , i have to hold the key in a certain spot for it to spark , any help would be greatly appreciated 

[Hayden.96]

Also could the issue with the reds be something to do with the auto seeing i put a manual in it? Its just that the only issue is no reds and the spark at the dizzy , also i don't have a ballast resistor as ive been told by the previos owner that it has been wired up so it doesnt need one 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Hayden.96
Spelling errors

[Hayden.96]

Also how do i bridge the auto wires for the manual gearbox? I tried to comprehend it but i can't 

[Banjo]

Will answer you tomorrow morning. Definitely the auto interlock has to be shorted before you can start it. I've got a KE30 that was an auto when I got it. I fitted a 5 speed manual gearbox, and went through the same issue. Cheers Banjo

[Banjo]

Hi Hayden,

                    Have a look at this link. It's all been done before/

 

https://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/72760-ke55-auto-to-manual-conversion-wiring/?tab=comments#comment-704960

Trust that assists.

Cheers Banjo

[Banjo]

Hi Hayden,

                    I went & checked this morning, to make sure I'm not advising you some untruths.  I still had my olde auto shifter in the garage, complete with the lead & plug.  I buzzed out the connections & confirmed the following.

Assuming Toyota kept the same wiring colour codes in your particular model Rolla, the white socket is a 4 way. 

1. There are two wires that are red. One is red with a white stripe, & the other a red wire with a blue stripe.  These two wires close a switch, when the auto changer is placed in "Reverse". These two corresponding wires in your loom under the dash, just to the RHS of the console, should be connected to the reversing switch in the manual gearbox.

2. There are two wires that are black.  One is black with a white stripe, & the other is just fully black.  These two wires close a switch, when the auto changer is in "Neutral", which allows the car to be started.  These two corresponding wires in your loom under the dash, should be shorted together.

This should solve your problems.  Let us know how you go.

There are two other "single" wires coming out from the auto changer in these pics above. One is red with a black stripe, & the other a white with a black stripe.  Theses are purely for powering the light behind the auto changer, when driving at night. The corresponding ones under the dash, are basically the same circuit as your dash lights. You will not need to use these.  I know they are "sockets", under the dash, but just tape them up, so they don't short against chassis anywhere.

Cheers Banjo

  

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Banjo

[Hayden.96]

On 26/04/2018 at 6:41 PM, Hayden.96 said:

Cheers banjo i got that all sorted just still havent got the reds or dash lights up don't know why and the car only starts and runs if i hold the key just past the second click if i let go the car stalls 

 

[altezzaclub]

That'll be this problem-

"I would suggest that your KE55 is wired up for a a ballast resistor before the ignition coil. It could be missing or open circuit.  That would explain why you get power in the start position, but not in the "run" position of the ignition key. "

Two wires must go to the coil, the one through the ballast resistor from the 'run' position of the key  and the one directly to the coil from the 'start' position. You only have the one from the 'start' position working.  The ballast resistor drops the coil voltage as they are a 9V coil.

[Hayden.96]

Thanks mate just that the guy i got the car off said thats it been wired so it doesnt need one, also he had a motor in the car and it used to start and run fine until the motor blew up hence no original motor but i might have to give it a try thanks 

[Banjo]

Hi Hayden,

                   Have you got the engine cranking over, now that you've shorted out the wires that originally went to the "Neutral" interlock switch, when the Rolla had an auto gearbox in it ?

         

 

         Here is the very basic setup for the starter motor.  Yours and most other cars from this era were wired up like this.  The only difference with your wiring, is that the auto neutral interlock switch, is depicted on the other side of the relay coil, in circuit above.

I'm assuming your ignition barrel / switch is OK.  

I've yet to find a car manual wiring diagram, that can depict the ignition switch adequately, which indicates how it works.  Lots of guys & gals get frustrated when trying to work it out.

Frankly, the wiring diagrams in the back of most auto manuals are pathetic, & very hard to follow.

The little black dots in the table above, indicate which outputs are connected, when the switch is in each of its four (4) positions.

In the "Lock" or OFF position, there are no connections at all through the ignition switch.

There is one supply wire to the ignition switch in our Rollas, which comes directly from the battery, via the "fusible link", which is usually very close to the battery itself.  In my Rolla this wire is a black wire with a red stripe  Black/Red.

There are four (4) output wires.

In the Accessory position, the Blue/Red wire is powered.  This wire usually goes off to the fuse block to power accessories like radios etc. In some models, it also powers the cigarette lighter.

In the Ignition position, the Black/Yellow wire is powered, as well as the Accessory wire above.  The Black/Yellow wire is connected to the end of the ballast resistor, not connected to the +ve terminal of the coil.  It also goes across to the other side of the engine bay to power the fuel solenoid, built into some Aisin carbies.

In the Start position, all sorts of things happen.  The accessories are turned off, so there are no additional loads on the battery, so all its available power can be provided to starting the engine.  The Back/White wire provides power to the starter relay, which in turn provides power to the starter motor solenoid. The Black wire provides battery voltage directly to the +ve terminal of the ignition coil, effectively short circuiting the ballast resistor.  This assists in starting the car, when battery volts are low, during starting on a cold morning.

Despite what the guy told you, it appears from the symptoms that your car is not wired up correctly.  Assuming the ignition coil that is fitted, has the correct "primary resistance" (about 3 ohms), so it can be used without a ballast resistor, you need to find the Black/Yellow wire that was originally connected to the "ballast" resistor, & then connect it to the +ve terminal of the coil. If the harness is unmolested, it should be close to the existing coil, if it is in the standard location.  If you can't find it, & the carby has a fuel solenoid on it, with an electrical wire running to the carby, you could run a wire from the carby temporarily,, to the +ve terminal of the coil, & see if that solves your issue.

Good luck, & let us know how you go.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Banjo

[Hayden.96]

Thanks banjo , all i could fine is the black single wire that goes to the ballast resistor well thats where it seems to go in pictures so I'm going to try and put that on to the positive side of the coil, and the carby doesnt have an wires its a 3k, so is that the only thing that it could be? And also the ignition barrel is seized but the ignition switch works fine so i can still start it and what not

[Banjo]

Hi Hayden,

                  Squirt some WD40 into the ignition barrel. They are a bugga to change, although it can be done.  There are two conical bolts underneath, that break off when they were originally fitted, so you have to grind or cut a slot in in the "cones", so you can remove with a large screwdriver.

Lets know how you go with the black wire on the +ve terminal of the ignition coil.

Good luck !

P.S.  Just off interest, can you list the wire colours of the five (5) wires on the back end of the ignition switch itself. I want to know if Toyota kept the same colours, in every model.

Cheers Banjo. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Banjo

[Hayden.96]

Ill try it now , and the wires are the same colours so they must of kept them the same thanks mate