Ke20 idler arm questions

[wenisman]

Hey everyone,

    I took the old idler arm out of my ke26, but one of the captive nuts stripped off the bracket as it was sized good and proper. 

 

So I bought a new 555 idler arm, but the new arm doesn't seem to turn. I have taken the idler arm apart, the tube in the middle has notches that seem to be used to index onto the bracket and the end washer. The rubber bushing doesn't look to rotate, so I'm wondering how this arm was designed to work?

 

Should I just released the tension on the nut holding the idler arm to the bracket until it turns freely?

[Banjo]

Hi Geoff,

               If your KE26 idler arm pivot, is the same as those in the KE30 series, I have never come across them "locking up".  The bushes in these take a beating, & I replaced them every 4-5 years.  I guess, that if the nut on the top of the pivot, was too tight, it might not turn easily & could appear "locked".   By all means, back the nut off, until it turns, but don't leave it loose.

Cheers Banjo

[wenisman]

Thanks banjo, I'll back the nut off for now. But without a castlated nut I hope it won't come loose

Edited February 1, 2023 by wenisman

[wenisman]

Just for context, I attached two photos of the idler arm to bracket interface. You can see the teeth on the crush tube and the indexing notches that are in both the bracket and end washer. 

 

Both the old original idler arm and the new 555 idler arm have the same setup. 

 

But I'm also not sure how I can replace the bushes. They are just a solid rubber peice. The ke30 idler is different in that it has some bushes that sit between the rubber and the crush tube I believe.

[altezzaclub]

The one pictured doesn't move on the shaft, it relies on the rubber distorting to turn, so gets done up tight on the crush tube. Others have two tapered bushes that do swivel on the shaft and have a castellated nut, although I can't swear to Toyota following the other Japanese manufacturers in the 1970s. I think I've seen swivelling bushes on Celicas.

[Banjo]

I have never come across a "crushed" bush on an idler, on any of my Rollas.  All the ones I've seen have two tapered half bushes.

The only reason I could imagine, they placed a crushed idler bush, would be, that it assisted "self centering" of the steering.  That would require, I presume; that the nut be tightened up, on the crush tube, with the steering in the straight ahead alignment.  It might be easier to just get a whole new idler arm assembly, with the two tapered, removable & replaceable bushes, & dice the crush tubed version altogether.

Cheers Banjo

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Banjo

[wenisman]

Thanks for the feed back guys, that was very helpful and much appreciated. 

That self centred steering makes sense, and explains why the rubber is so torn around the ends.

I was having banjos exact problem of things weren't lining up when I put them back on the car. So I have backed the nut off and I'll tighten it once it's all aligned. But I will see about what can be done with regards to getting a tapered bush arrangement

[altezzaclub]

Yeah, I wouldn't be happy about the amount of distance the rubber has to swivel if it was locked by the crush tube, it seems a long way. The 5 arms in the rear suspension of a KE70 have the same bushes, and in the front LCAs, its why you never do them up tight until they are at ride height.

I think they used them as they don't wear like the tapered bushes, they hold steady until the rubber fractures and then they are a throwaway. Because they are vulcanised into the metal bush the tolerances are smaller & more accurate.

[wenisman]

On a side note, I was replacing the lower ball joint on the suspension arm and again using 555. One of the ball joints is tight and requires some force to move. The other is very loose, I can move it around with just one finger. I'm wondering if the loose ball joint is defective, or since it's probably not going to move alot the loose joint might be ok?

[altezzaclub]

I usually find the driver's side balljoint is the good one & the passenger's side the loose one. The road edge just hammers the suspension on that one side, a result of Aussie's crap roads.

They are difficult to measure in place, but if you take the wheel off and put a block of wood or something under the hub to support it at about ride height, you can slip a big screwdriver in the LCA/strut area and see the movement from the loose balljoint. With the weight going through the strut onto the wood, the LCA is pretty much floating free. Use the screwdriver to push the LCA down, the jack to push it up until it takes weight, & lever down again. There shouldn't be any movement in there at all.

I've changed both mine, some years back now, and the new ones were tight but smooth.

[wenisman]

OnThanks altezza.

I have taken the entire suspension arm out, cleaned it, painted it and just replaced the bushings and ball joints. But the new 555 ball joint is very loose. Like I can push it around with 1 finger. 

 

I tried pushing grease through both the new 555 ball joints. The loose ball joint the grease went through very easily. The tighter one the grease went through but mostly stayed in the bottom

 

I'm just wondering if I should press out the loose ball joint, even though it's new and put a new ball joint in. I can only find trupro ball joints but they should be ok?

[wenisman]

Actually playing with the ball joint, on the loose one I can push and pull the joint up and down. So I am calling it a dead ball joint. I'll have to run with the trupro for now

[Banjo]

Hi Geoff,

                 Are you saying you only changed one of the ball joints (not two) & the one you replaced; withs a new one, is the loose one ?  i've never changed ball joints on the end on the lower suspenion arms.  I am well aware that the grease nipples underneath the ball jopints are in a vunerable position to get wiped out, & not replaced; & if the rubber boot on the top side deteriorates, & allows road grime in, they will wear away.  I'm wondering why I missed out on the delightful maintenance need.  i just popped out to the shed, & I have three (3) off identical sets, I've pulled of Rollas, at some stage. They are all nice & tight, without any slop or wear movement in them at all.

If the ball joint is new, & has slop in it, I'd be returning it for a new one. I've never ever, had the need to cut an olde one up, & look inside, but I assume there maybe a spring in the base, to allow grease to be pumped in.  Maybe if there is a spring, then your new bush has it omitted, or it has broken in assembly at the factory ?  Strangw !

 

Got me tossed how a brand new ball joint can be that loose, Usually, they are as tight as hell, when brand new.

 

It looks like the Made in Japan ones are about $ 150 on ebay, whereas the Trupro versions are almost 1/3 of that amount.

 

 

 

 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Banjo

[wenisman]

Yeah, I replaced both ball joints. The rubbers were gone on the old ones and whilst I had the suspension arm off the car is a good time to replace them. I'm actually just cleaning, painting and replacing anything that is perishable. I know the car want registered since 2014 and since all the bushes literally fell apart when I jacked the car up I'm guessing the steering/suspension is original with the car...

 

Ill send the faulty one back, came from autosurplus as nos stock. So not sure of it's origins but it has '555 made in Japan' printed on the ball joint. 

[Banjo]

Hi Geoff !  That is a labour of love, when there is that much corrosion accumulated over the years. Did you get the new ball joins pressed in, with a press, or create a ring anvill & hammer them home yourself ?  I've always found 555 branded aftermarket bits & pieces OK, previously.

 

Cheers  Banjo

Edited February 13, 2023 by Banjo