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Golberg’s 4age 16v Cooling Guide


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#1 Golberg

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 07:39 PM

Firstly, To the moderators, is this the best place to post this in the forum? I looked around, seemed appropriate, if not feel free to move it.
For those on Toymods you will notice that this guide is also there too.

I spent quite some time gathering bit and pieces of 4A-C and 4A-GE cooling systems. I currently have a complete water system(apart from radiator) for an AE71 4A-C, AE93 4A-GE, and a JDM AE86 4A-GE and part of an AE82 4A-GE system.

The aim of this guide is to show the similarities and difference between each of the systems and to give tips about what can be used in different configurations.

Comparison

Water Pump:
A front wheel drive (FWD) 4A-GE water pump off either an AE82 or AE92/3 is fundamentally different from a rear wheel drive (RWD) 4A-GE pump from a JDM AE86.
To begin with, the RWD pump is taller than the FWD pump (i.e. Sticks out further from the engine block). The RWD pump also has better bearings in order to support the weight of a pump mounted radiator fan. Note: If you attach a fan to the front of a FWD pump it will soon fail and no longer function. Interestingly, a RWD 4A-C water pump is almost identical to that of a RWD 4A-GE pump. The only difference is the position of the little ridge on which the cam cover sits.

Posted Image

Water Pump Rear Housing:

Once again the FWD variety of the 4A-GE rear housing is very different to the RWD version. It consists of only a single large water inlet (from theromstat) and an outlet which bolts directly onto the front of the 4A-GE block. The RWD version on the other hand has in integrated thermostat just after the water inlet as well as a bypass inlet from the front water outlet on the head. There is also another inlet which comes from the heater core and had the same outlet bolted onto the block. The RWD 4A-C rear housing is identical to that of a RWD 4A-GE one.

Posted Image

Water Pulley:
A FWD 4A-GE has a pulley with a smaller offset than the RWD 4A-GE one in order to compensate for the shortness of the FWD water pump. The RWD 4A-GE one is considerably more offset. The RWD 4A-C version has the same offset as the RWD 4A-GE one but it uses a single V belt rather than a 5-rib belt.

Posted Image

Front Water Outlet from Head:
Both FWD and RWD 4A-GE versions have outlets that point forward from the front of the motor but on the RWD version there is a short bypass pipe which goes directly down into the back of the water pump rear housing. On the FWD version a small bypass pipe runs down the length of the block to a remote thermostat. A RWD 4A-C has a short outlet which points out perpendicular to the length of the engine and a bypass pipe slightly longer than the RWD 4A-GE version which goes into the water pump rear water housing.

Posted Image

Rear Water Pipes:
(from the back of the water pump rear housing)
As mentioned before, the FWD 4A-GE has a large inlet pipe coming from the remote thermostat. The RWD 4A-GE system has one main pipe which comes from the heater core, it also has some smaller pipes which direct water into the throttle body. The RWD 4A-C pipe is just a single return from the heater core.

Posted Image

Rear Water Outlet from Head:

There are 2 different FWD versions of this outlet the AE92/3 4A-GE has a pipe which protrudes out further from the block than the AE82 4A-GE version. The RWD version from an AE86 4A-GE is very similar to the outlet from an AE82 4A-GE except the outlet pipe is longer and has another small pipe coming off it for the throttle body. The RWD 4A-C one is not at all similar to any 4A-GE version.

Posted Image

Thermostat:

As mentioned before the RWD 4A-GE pump housing rear has a thermostat integrated, again this is the same as a RWD 4A-C one. The small inlet pipe from the radiator does not have any provision for a temp sensor and is the same for both RWD 4A-C and 4A-GE. The thermostat for a FWD motor on the other hand is different, it is in its own remotely located housing, there are 2 different types, one from an AE82 and the other from the AE92/3. They are fairly similar and both have provision for a temp sensor on the inlet.

Posted Image
Note: I may have mixed the 2 up, if you can confirm I'll make a correction if necessary.

Posted Image

Alternator Bracket:
There are 2 main different types of alternator bracket for the 4A-GE the FWD one bolts on at the bottom of the block and sits the alternator relatively high. And adjuster strap is mounted to the front water outlet from the head. The RWD one on the other hand bolts to the same place but sits the alternator lower and has an adjuster strap mount on itself. It also has one extra bolt, sitting on top of the RWD engine mount. Why does this matter? You cannot run a RWD water pump and rear housing without it, otherwise the inlet will be blocked by the alternator.

Posted Image

Harmonic Balancer:
RWD Harmonic Balancers are different to the FWD AE92 version. The inner part of the pulley has a greater diameter on the RWD version. What this means it that the alternator will more than likely be pulled closer to the block on a RWD engine but I can confirm that the standard AE92 4AGE harmonic balancer works just fine with the RWD alternator bracket and strap.

Edited by Golberg, 11 May 2008 - 09:35 PM.

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#2 Golberg

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 07:39 PM

FAQ

Can you use a RWD 4A-C water pump on a RWD 4AGE? Yes, you just need to file off a little of the timing cover ridge and you must also use a RWD rear pump housing too.

Can the RWD 4A-GE rear water pipes be used on a Small Port 4A-GE (100kw) motor? No, unfortunately they cannot, they interfere with the knock sensor on the block. (Work-around in the next section)

Can the RWD 4A-C rear water pipe be used on a RWD 4A-GE? Yes, it can, but it wont allow you to run the throttle body cooling. Same problem as with the 4A-GE pipes on the Small Port in standard configuration also.

Is there any way to keep the FWD alternator bracket when using a RWD water system? Maybe, but it’ll require some modification of either the thermostat input pipe or the bracket itself.

How can I incorporate a temperature sensor (for a thermo fan etc) into my RWD water setup? By using one of the thermostat inlets from the remote thermostats of either the AE82 or AE92 you can use the inlet pipe in place of the regular one which has a temp switch built in.

Can I use a FWD pulley on the RWD water pump? No, if you do the belts will not line up.

Do I need the proper RWD head rear water outlet to run the RWD water system? Yes, unless you do not wish to use the throttle body cooling part.

Can I use the front water outlet pipe on the head of a RWD 4A-C on a RWD 4A-GE instead? No, it will not bolt onto the 4A-GE head.

Can the bypass pipe leading from the front water oulet to the rear pump housing of a RWD 4A-C be used on a RWD 4A-GE setup? No, but it would probably be possible to shortern it to fit.

More to come, just need to think of some more. If anybody has any questions ask in this thread and I'll add the responses here.

Edited by Golberg, 11 May 2008 - 09:30 PM.

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#3 Golberg

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 07:39 PM

RWD Water System on a Small Port 4A-GE

As some may already know, you cannot use RWD 4AGE heater return on a 4AGE with a knock sensor (small port, GZE etc). I devised another plan which was to use the heater return off the 4AC RWD and twist it 180 so that it sat off the block and also sat lower than the sensor. Here are a couple of photos to explain.

You can see here the small amount I had to lop off to make the pipe fit in (otherwise it just goes straight into the sandwich plate):

Posted Image

I cut up an old battery strap to make a mount for the pipe and it works brilliantly:

Posted Image

The rear outlet joins straight onto the heater return in my pic because I need to drive the car before I get the heater box back in.

Edited by Golberg, 11 May 2008 - 09:29 PM.

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#4 Medicine_Man

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 07:49 PM

Did you add this to the WIKI/FAQ yet?

Good work, This is an excellent article..
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#5 ae174agze

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 08:37 PM

ok i have a set up for you

what i have 4ac i took out of my ae71 and all the cooling gear from that

what would i do if i had a ae101 gze converted to 4agte with a cut and shunt rwd manifold
all the cooling gear from the ae101 4agze

Edited by ae174agze, 05 May 2008 - 08:48 PM.

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#6 Golberg

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 09:52 PM

View Postae174agze, on May 5 2008, 08:37 PM, said:

ok i have a set up for you

what i have 4ac i took out of my ae71 and all the cooling gear from that

what would i do if i had a ae101 gze converted to 4agte with a cut and shunt rwd manifold
all the cooling gear from the ae101 4agze
I have never seen a 4AGZE in person (yes I've been very deprived) but I can offer up some possible solutions for you anyway. The cheapest solution would be to use all of the 4AGZE water system but set it up differently, but I'd imagine that the AE101 GZE has a rear water outlet from the head which sticks out similar the AE92 one pictured. You will need to change it for an AE82 4AGE one you may like to swap the sensors between the 2 also in order to have them still connect properly to the loom.

You can now cut up different peices of the water system and add some hoses in order to make the remote theromstat sit close to the front. It should end up something like this Posted Image
(Image borrowed from a reply posted on Toymods to this same thread)

But, seeing as its a 4AGZE you'll be wanting to move the alternator anyway wont you? Because otherwise it hits the swaybar if remember correctly. Now you've got 2 options here, get yourself a RWD Alternator bracket and adjuster strap or get a FWD alternator bracket. Both of these options will relocate the alternator onto the intake side of the engine (wont interfere with the SC because you aren't running one). In order to use the FWD bracket you will also need a standard 4AGE FWD (AE92/AE82) front water outlet from the head and it will end up similar to the setup pictured above except with the alternator moved. Now, running the RWD alternator bracket is a slightly more complicated, you will need it and the adjuster strap(obviously) as well as front water outlet from the head(and the short pipe which connects it to the rear pump housing and a RWD 4AGE pump pulley. You can then use the pump, rear housing, thermostat, and heater return pipe off you 4AC. You will need to mount the 4AC heater return twisted 180 degrees in order to clear the knock sensor, and also file out a small notch from the 4AC water pump, this will become clear when you try to fit it. You can also see the notch taken out on the 4AC pump picture above(its in the bottom right corner). If you go with the RWD pump setup then you will be free to run the original fan off the 4AC and you wont have to worry about mounting a remote thermostat anywhere.

I've given you alot of info there, but hopefull you can work out what I am trying to say, Once I've put my RWD water system on my small port 4AGE will put up pictures of how it goes together. It'll also use the 4AC heater return pipe(I've got a knock sensor too). Everything I've said also assumes you will not be running aircon or power steering. You will find it very easy to source the FWD water parts, but harder to find the RWD gear. RWD pulley is easily sorted, there are aftermarket ones and I also bought mine new from toyota. RWD Alternator bracket you may find second hand off a sprinter otherwise there are new ones floating around. Hardest thing to find will probably be the RWD top water outlet, apparently they aren't so common new.

Any more questions just ask, good luck.
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#7 ae174agze

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 11:40 PM

many thanks for your detailed reply i'll be trying out your options if or when my engine ever arrives :POSTPICS!:
thanks again
cheers
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#8 Trev

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 01:05 AM

Nice write up dude.

#9 tas_ae71

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:03 AM

someone said that ae82 4ac has a ribbed fan belt as oposed to the ae71/86 4ac v-belt...

this may also be an option but id imagine that again the waterpump would be the same as fwd 4age?
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#10 Trev

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 05:48 PM

View Posttas_ae71, on May 6 2008, 02:03 AM, said:

someone said that ae82 4ac has a ribbed fan belt as oposed to the ae71/86 4ac v-belt...

this may also be an option but id imagine that again the waterpump would be the same as fwd 4age?

Yes they do but the water pump is different, The 4age has more of a cut out to allow for the cam belt and covers.

#11 Golberg

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 06:04 PM

View Posttas_ae71, on May 6 2008, 02:03 AM, said:

someone said that ae82 4ac has a ribbed fan belt as oposed to the ae71/86 4ac v-belt...

this may also be an option but id imagine that again the waterpump would be the same as fwd 4age?
Yes I can confirm this, I checked out the 4AC AE82 at TAFE today and it has a 5 rib belt. Not sure about the pump yet, but as you said, its probably a standard FWD one.
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#12 Trev

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:44 PM

View PostGolberg, on May 6 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

Yes I can confirm this, I checked out the 4AC AE82 at TAFE today and it has a 5 rib belt. Not sure about the pump yet, but as you said, its probably a standard FWD one.

The 4age and 4a have different waterpumps, I have already mentioned that, You should also note that the 4agze top outlet has a different angle to than the standard 4age one.

#13 Medicine_Man

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:52 PM

AW11 MR2 motor..

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#14 Golberg

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 11:58 PM

View PostTrev, on May 6 2008, 07:44 PM, said:

The 4age and 4a have different waterpumps, I have already mentioned that, You should also note that the 4agze top outlet has a different angle to than the standard 4age one.
4A and 4AGE have different water pumps, but you can still use atleast the RWD 4AC pump on a 4AGE. I quickly modified one to test the theory, it'll work fine just the middle peice of the timing cover wont sit flush against the pump, there will be a gap. And, you need a new pulley too (amongst all the other RWD water bits and peices).

Cheers for the pics there too Medicine Man :POSTPICS!:

Is it just me or did the board just change themes or something also? Looks more fancy now

Edited by Golberg, 06 May 2008 - 11:59 PM.

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#15 Redwarf

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 01:44 PM

Pinned for easy access for nuff nuffs. I'd FAQ it, but I struggle to type my name. Good write up. :POSTPICS!:
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