ms85er

Hi, I need a bit of help with lowering my car. I have a ms85 crown, I ordered some lovells springs for front and rear, because they were the only company that I was aware of that made a lowered rear spring for my car (since I've found pedders makes one as well). So I installed the "sports low" springs which are the first level of low. The front is now scrubbing when I go over bumps in the road, and seems to have a soft spring rate, and the rear has barely even moved, but has a solid spring rate. It's really noticeable when corner that the rears are much stiffer. Has anyone come across variations between brands?, If I get pedders lowered springs for the rear is it likely to come down?, I would cut them at least temporarily but a mate suggested against that because of the design of the springs, and for the front, If I get kings or pedders would it likely change the height, or am I venturing into custom territory? Cheers.

Smart idea, thanks for the info

The car is a 92 4Runner V6 3VZE, hasn't blown a head gasket for a decade now, but now leaking from the rear main worse than ever, was rebuilt about 10 years ago, the leak from rear main probably in the last 2-3 years. Makes sense, so would a small amount of RTV help on the outer edge, speaking of which, where do they normally leak? I imagine on the inner edge around the crank?

Hi all, Every car I have ever owned (except a commodore) has had a leaking rear main seal. Some of my cars worse than others. I have a rebuilt 5mge in one of my cars, and it started leaking straight away after the rebuild. From previous research I have herd that rear main seals can leak because of improper fitment, crap seals (crappy brands that come with clutch kits), and also due to crank balancing. Crank balancing is the one that interests me. I want to repair the leak on one of my 4x4's, because it's leaking oil really bad, but to go to the effort to remove the gearbox and replace it, and have it continue to leak after replacing it makes me wonder. If my crank hasn't been balanced properly, is there any way to make the leak stop? Or does anyone have installation tips? because I know for cam seals some people have tricks for installing them like using a punch on the edges to try and expand the seal. Cheers

ok thanks for the response, those rn25-40 g series diffs are getting hard to come by.

It's exactly the same as the ae71 if that helps

I considered this at one point, and there is a guy that did it in europe I think, he drifted his ke70 with a ka24de. I personally don't think it's worth it, If you are sure you want to use a ka24de than go for it, but I think there would be better options tbh. The 3rz-fe is pretty good, weighs less, more displacement and much cheaper to turbo down the track, and ofcourse the sr20 route, it is a decent engine the ka24de, but not a particularly great one.

ahh of course I forgot ke70's were a cable clutch weren't they, disregard my comments about drilling the hole in the firewall :P, looks like its coming along nicely, the reverse light wiring is super easy to find, it's on the firewall near the id plate, one of those 6 plug connectors, I can't remember which ones of the top of my head but I think they are on the right or left end.

As Hiro said above your probably refereing to the 3VZE 12v SOHC. Quiet often they are very similar kits, so toyota might change a gasket or 2 here and there as they release different versions of the motor, but usually if it says 3VZE most of the gaskets will fit a 3VZE. For example on the 5mge engine I rebuilt recently the kit had older intake gaskets so I had to order the later model intake gaskets individually from rockauto in the us, they cost like $4 + shipping.

Don't even touch a 22r, there is just no point effort wise. I understand you are rural but you may have to make a trip out of town. You have almost endless options for a ke30 it just depends what you want to achieve. For example, reliability, fuel consumption, simplicity of conversion, racing (turbocharged engine). The 4age toyota motor is a very good option for you, relatively easy to install, push out plenty of power, are light, simple to work on, very cheap to purchase from a wreckers, toyota still sell new parts for them (waterpumps, thermostat housings etc, etc, the only real downside is their displacement (1.6 litre) but they still put out plenty of power as corollas are light. This is the simple, less adventurous route I've put a link below with some useful information about kits to install a 4age into ke30. The reason is said there is no point effort wise for a 22r, because if you are going to put a 22r into it you might as well put in a 3rz-fe hilux motor which is much better both power wise and fuel consumption. Both would require custom mounts, different gearboxes etc, the only difference is you need to run more electrical wiring for the 3rz. If you wanted the more adventurous route you have many options, which mainly include turbocharged engines (ca18det, sr20det etc). I would personally recommend the 3rz-fe hilux motor (if you go the more adventurous route). You could probably source one of them where you are, they come in the 97-2004 2wd hilux, some 4x4 hilux of the same years, and some old 96-98 model prados (and in the hilux they already have a w56 gearbox bolted to the engine, the w series you were talking about). I have a 3rz in my daily and they are bulletproof, the fuel consumption isn't as good as some engines but much better than the 22r. Also keep in mind, you could start with the 4age and a t50 gearbox and then if you get bored with a 1.6 litre, upgrade again later as you will already have a lot of upgrades in place (fuel system, hydraulic clutch etc). http://www.rollaclub...ke70-ae71-ae86/ this link is a good example of a 3rz in a ke10 http://www.rollaclub...cyl-radial-car/

impressive, I like the dash as well

Hi mate, I've upgraded a KE70 Auto to a 4A-C Manual. Very good upgrade in my opinion. If you have the money I highly recommend sourcing the parts and just upgrading it to an A model engine. I was fortunate enough to get a 200,000 4A-c for $60. I did this about 3 and half years ago, there is a very useful walk through in the FAQ section I think, it' somewhere on this website. I had to very slightly adjust the shifter hole for my upgrade and obviously drill the master cylinder hole (which I did poorly lol). I have stuffed up that hole twice, the first car was fairly neat but I found out later that it was too tight and damaged the cylinder and fluid leaked everywhere, the second time was fine but the hole was noticeable, so take your time and drill it nicely with the hole saw, but other than that it was a piece of cake.

Hi mate, I'm loving this thread. What diff are you running in this?, I saw your first few pages of the thread with the brake upgrades, but you only said late ms85 hub/spindle, so your just using the later ms85 f series? Unfortunately I didn't get one of the later model ms85's that come with rear disc brakes. I'm considering upgrading my diff, I've herd a ms112 rear diff can be installed with minimal fuss. I don't suppose you know what year ms85's had the rear disc brakes? mine is a early/mid 1978 model. btw fully jealous of your setup, looks awesome now you fixed your transmission issues.

EDit - didn't read whole thread , disregard

When I say "blow" I was being a bit dramatic it was more of a split, so it leads me to believe they aren't very strong.

I've seen a road driven ke70 wagon with a 16 valve and a bosch 070 blow the fuel feed line from the tank, they are only really designed for the carby engine but you may get by if your lucky.

Random question to another ms85 crown owner: what does the diaphragmatic valve thing sitting in the right hand side of the engine bay- about middle of the wheel arch and inside the frame hole, its where if you put your hand in you can touch the outter passenger guard?. It could be something to do with the carbed 4m but i don't know, i cannot figure out what its there for, mine was never hooked up when I got the car. Awesome build btw

Yah the 7mge had its head gasket material changed just before production and they forgot to tell the factory to torque down the head an extra 20 or so ft lb, also their general head design tends to support hot spots, but not the 5mge its known for being reliable but sometimes temperamental, as such I have provided a perfect example of that above. I don't think I torqued the head down properly with the studs I use so I'll take that as my fault :bright:

hi again all, I have replaced the oil pump with the ms123 pump and it made no difference, I didn't check bearing clearances while I was there as access was bad but I'm certain they are good, the whole engine is quiet as a whisper when cold with pressure, as said previously the bottom end would have to be rooted to get that low oil pressure. I have a new symptom also, the engine starts to miss when warm. I'm pretty certain I've figured it out and it has NOTHING to do with the oil system. there are other symptoms as well - It has erratic idle and low idle although it seems normal to be around 1000 rpm range this is not really normal for my 5mge as it was much higher in my donor car and that's a low idle for 5mge's, also in relation to the idle the the later M series engines oil pumps are high volume low pressure so anywhere around 5 psi or higher would be normal at idle, so it doesn't surprise me it needs a bit of idle speed to push up the pressure. Initially when I first fired up the engine I didn't pay any attention to the oil pressure when warm but I did notice it had really high idle (common for 5mge's, specifically old ones) I thought this was an ignition timing thing so I kept constantly screwing around with the ignition advance, little did I know it was running completely normal for a couple of hours, until the idle dropped which I thought must of been my timing adjustments but was actually just the head surface expanding a bit after some heat cycles :blinks: Idle too low - low oil pressure - erratic idle within 100 rpm range - engine missing when warm - cooling system seems to be getting super pressurised (possibly oil in coolant) = blown head gasket :rant: I had just put a recod head on and I used arp head studs from the 7mgte and spaced them higher with ball bearings but I F****ed something up when I torqued them I'm pretty sure and I used copper spray on the head gasket, don't know whether that would have anything to do with it. later M series engines are terrible! If I were to continue with an M series motor I would just use head bolts. Looks like there is now a 1JZ on my shopping list :yes: Just thought I'd document this here so it might help someone out in the future. Thanks for the help

ahh I see, All pumps have exact same gears, the height of the gears are the same, the height of all the pumps is identical. I'm not too familiar with the insides of the pumps but ill pop 2 of them off and have a look. The 5mge one I don't want to stuff with too much, I'll fit anyway and hope for the best :P

So I managed to get the sump off but what a PAIN IN THE A**. There was a drag link bar or whatever it was in my way just to the rear of the sump bulge managed to get 1 of 4 ball joints separated after applying heat, hammer and swearing, was just able to remove the sump after 2 whole days of screwing around. so anyway nothing much to see in the sump, there didn't appear to be any leaks from the pickup tube, although its pretty had to tell. Here is a comparison of the two different sumps top is 4m mid sump bottom is 5mge mid sump from a crown, pretty much same-same here is a comparison of all the different 4m mid sump pumps: left is a mid sump 5mge from ms123, centre is from 4m ms85 crown, right is from 1976 mid sump corona here is the new 4m corona pump that came out, looks pretty clean and not much to see Here is the 5mge mid sump pump I'm going to fit from a 5mge ms123 crown, I noticed it has a hole drilled where the bolt is for the pressure regulator, the other pumps don't have this. from this photo you can see the 5mge pump actually has a larger pickup tube although you would think the previous pump with a smaller pickup tube would give a higher pressure rather than a lower pressure if the tube was smaller. If anyone can explain the hole in the head of the bolt of the ms123 pump would be great.

Getting the 1uz already mid sump winning, sump swapping ghey

Thanks for all the responses Pretty sure I've solved it without removing the sump yet, I have searched the internet for over 6 hours I recon I finally found something. There's a thread on oldschool.co.nz and a guy has the exact same problem. Turns out there are inconsistencies in the whole: "Yah all M series pumps will work in any M engine, although 2m pump in 5m and later blocks will be hit by counterweight". I got all this info from toymods threads it is only partially correct. The drive gears on the pumps are ever so different and it sounds like people have had to make their own hybrid pump. There is also information to suggest there is 2 types of 4m mid sump pumps. I ordered a new Aisin 4M pump to suite a 1978 4M Corona (I think) as I knew it would fit my sump perfectly. Turns out I would of been better off using a ms123 crown as my donor car instead of a mx73 cressida, then none of this sump swapping would of been required. So I need to source a 08.1984 - 08.1987 MS123 crown oil pump.

Hmmm Thanks for the info, for simplicity if I have a spare $400 lying around I noticed drift motion also make a upgraded pump, I would probably have to modify it to fit my sump though. http://www.driftmoti...mp-p/dm1072.htm Today I put 4.4 litres of 15W60 and barely any difference, the 5.6 dry sump figure was way too much as the car used to have an oil cooler. I had a look around all the main seals, front main is not leaking, rear main has been replaced during transplant and no leaks near the gearbox, back of cam towers are dry and the oil level is solid, other than some leaks from the cam seals which don't seem to be that bad I don't think its a seal. After doing hours of research on the net I'm starting to think it's got something to do with the top end as the bottom end has roughly 200,000 on it from the donor car and it ran beautifully, it isn't knocking currently and it hasn't been touched in the conversion. I'm thinking cam bearings (5mge's don't actually have individual bearings as such they are built into the cam towers). I took off one of the cam covers and the cams are pretty beat up, I stupidly didn't put assembly lube on the cams when I installed them I just lathered them in oil additive, with the small oil leak near the cam area and the condition of the cams I'm wondering whether the oil pressure is dropping rapidly when warm as the clearances on the top end have drastically increased. Top end oil starvation on vy-vz commodores and a some newer euro cars seems to be a common thing - all for slightly different top end problems but all seem to throw the oil light. video of issue, probably skip to about half way where the audio kicks in.