camerondownunder88 Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Hi, Well decided last weekend to do a engine swap on my car. I had a tired 4K in my KE30 and decided I wanted to use my rebuilt 5K so did the swap took 1 day and car ran well SHIT. Got around problem with a points dizzy so I could get enough advance on it (electric dizzy only gave 0 degrees TDC at most) and ran carby fuel level up. This all gave an idle of 1000RPM and for 100km trip used 15L of fuel and up high toped out at 5000RPM and top speed of 120km/h b4 car pretty much died. So got car today to a work shop and tested and this is what I got: Car at idle is to lean at a road running well high way motor speed car makes a shit load of un burnt fuel..:) But I can tell you now 5K carbies have all same shit as a 3K 4K etc carby. and I had the stock 5K one rebuilt and it is fine and clean and atomizing good etc. Manifold is original exhaust is original only thing done to this motor is a shaved head and a rebuild. Is it possible the cam was put back in wrong to cause all this problems? Cheers Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerondownunder88 Posted February 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Just trying to gather info as I believe my dizzy was always 6 degrees out when I was trying to get it to run. The cam gear ona 5K if it has 59 teeth on it well 360/59 = 6.1 degrees so if this is right the timing chain is out one tooth. So can anyone tell me how many teeth on both sprockets on the K motors? Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 From memory, I'm pretty sure the cam gear has 36 teeth and the crank gear has 18. A quick way to eyeball if a cam is setup close, is to turn the engine over by hand with the rocker cover off. The rockers on cylinder #4 should be "on the rock" (ie exhaust just closing and inlet opening), when #1 cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrolla68 Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 From memory, I'm pretty sure the cam gear has 36 teeth and the crank gear has 18. A quick way to eyeball if a cam is setup close, is to turn the engine over by hand with the rocker cover off. The rockers on cylinder #4 should be "on the rock" (ie exhaust just closing and inlet opening), when #1 cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke. Doug ^^^^^^ What he said and yes the teeth amount is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerondownunder88 Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hi, Thanks for that much needed info there. Ok I needed it as my 5K has been rebuilt and had the head shaved and a BIGGER cam put in it. Now the car runs JUST takes abotu 5min to start needs full choke to start also as it runs lean at idle and I have a full rebuilt carby on it and tuned from mechanic on Monday and no improvement there. I am also running standard manifolds on this motor so I figure there fine. Also when I bought motor ina car it ran in there so there not the fault. I also replaced the sump seal and the whole bottom end of the motor is GREAT new pistons and all so no problem there. BUT..... This motor has a new timing chain and a cam in it that is all that isn't stock. And when I got the motor with the dizzy on full retard it would fire at TDC 0 degrees with it in normal position it would spark as the piston was going DOWN not good. So if I went one tooth backwards or forwards on the motor again wouldn't run good or at all so this has lead me to believe the cam was installed wrong. As each tooth ona K motors cam gear is 10 degrees so if it was one tooth out this would be my cause of trouble so I belive it is this. Also no matter what rev my car is at it sounds like hundreds of mini key banngers are happening in my exhaust and this has also lead me to belive the exhaust valves are opening to early and letting fresh air and fuel out of the motor b4 it fires and it gets worse at speed so if the exhaust is opening to early that would mean cam was put in 1 to 2 teeth advance and needs retarding. Also are all K motor cams the same? As if tehy are i might remove my reground cam from this motor and temp run a standard cam in it for a while. Cheers Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trd Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 yeh cam timings out, who put it in? & did they dial it in? when ya put a reground "bigger"cam in a engine you must dial it in. this means setting it up using a dial gauge, degree wheel & you need the cam specs. easyest way to find out if it is. set the no 1 piston to top dead centre (0 on the timing mark) pull the rocker cover off and have a look at no 7 & no 8 valve, they should be at the same height if you cam specs are the same from exhaust to inlet eg: intake opens at 15 & close at 45 exhaust opens at 45 & close at 15. hope this helps :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerondownunder88 Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hi, Ok removed my rocker cover tonight and here are results. When the number one cylinder was at TDC on compression stroke number 7 valve (intake on cylinder 4) was not rocking about 10/20 degrees after TDC in 1 after the 0 on the timing marks on the crank case it started to rock. So went and compared this to my 4K motor out of a car when it had TDC 1 valve 7 was abotu 1/3 to 1/2 way rocked and down and it is a standard cam so mm this leads me to think 5K is defiantly OUT :) OK heres hard part for me I don't know for sure the cam grind specs and well I don't have a dial wheel tool :yak: So I have a K motor manual so can I time my cam to how the manual says where the crank is TDC cylinder 1 and put the chain on with the 2 silver links directly opposite? Cheers Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrolla68 Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hi, Thanks for that much needed info there. Ok I needed it as my 5K has been rebuilt and had the head shaved and a BIGGER cam put in it. Now the car runs JUST takes abotu 5min to start needs full choke to start also as it runs lean at idle and I have a full rebuilt carby on it and tuned from mechanic on Monday and no improvement there. I am also running standard manifolds on this motor so I figure there fine. Also when I bought motor ina car it ran in there so there not the fault. I also replaced the sump seal and the whole bottom end of the motor is GREAT new pistons and all so no problem there. BUT..... This motor has a new timing chain and a cam in it that is all that isn't stock. And when I got the motor with the dizzy on full retard it would fire at TDC 0 degrees with it in normal position it would spark as the piston was going DOWN not good. So if I went one tooth backwards or forwards on the motor again wouldn't run good or at all so this has lead me to believe the cam was installed wrong. As each tooth ona K motors cam gear is 10 degrees so if it was one tooth out this would be my cause of trouble so I belive it is this. Also no matter what rev my car is at it sounds like hundreds of mini key banngers are happening in my exhaust and this has also lead me to belive the exhaust valves are opening to early and letting fresh air and fuel out of the motor b4 it fires and it gets worse at speed so if the exhaust is opening to early that would mean cam was put in 1 to 2 teeth advance and needs retarding. Also are all K motor cams the same? As if tehy are i might remove my reground cam from this motor and temp run a standard cam in it for a while. Cheers Cameron Cameron stop frigging around and check the cam timing mate. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love ke70 Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 why did afore mentioned workshop not set cam timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 One tooth out is 20 cam degrees in relation to the crank, not 10. Remember the cam runs at half crank speed. From what you have said, it sounds to me like you have the cam retarded one tooth. I would turn the motor over until #4 cylinders valves are on the rock. Disconnect the timing chain, then rotate the crank back to TDC (on #1), then reconnect the timing chain. Dialing in a cam is all well and good if you have vernier timing gears (plus you need a degree wheel, and a dial indicator). Generally cam grinders grind cams straight up, unless you have a cam with split timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sbox Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) Deleted Edited May 24, 2008 by Sbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerondownunder88 Posted March 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hi, Well after a very help full chat to a top bloke about my 5K I have all the info needed now to install the cam. So I went and removed my stock 4K cam from my spare low KM 4K that was behind an auto with an elderly owner so it is in good nick so a pic is below: So Friday night and Saturday morning I will be installing this cam into the 4K so wish me luck. As I believe my current reground cam is umm 20 degrees out but I don't have time to fiddle so back to stock it goes. And if it was a cam for a N/A setup I can't use it anyway with the SC14 I'm going to install so pending on what grind it is when it comes out Ill prob sell it to if someone is looking :P Cheers Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Installing a modified cam is no different to installing a stock one. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerondownunder88 Posted March 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hi, Felix I know a after market cam is no different BUT you have to dial it in and I don't have a dial gauge to measure cam lift and I don't have the gauge you bolt to the crank to dial it in so I will be switching back to stock. As the guy who rebuilt the motor then I got never dialed it in so it runs mm crap..lol Cheers Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrolla68 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hi, Felix I know a after market cam is no different BUT you have to dial it in and I don't have a dial gauge to measure cam lift and I don't have the gauge you bolt to the crank to dial it in so I will be switching back to stock. As the guy who rebuilt the motor then I got never dialed it in so it runs mm crap..lol Cheers Cameron NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stick with the re-ground cam mate.we will work through it with you.Do you have a manual or do you want me to emaiol you the pictures. Ring me if you want,PM me and ill give you my number. MAtt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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