Stixy Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 WOW WOW WOW It seems again i have opened a giant can of worms....... sorry guy i just wanted your thoughts on motors not a competition...... But thanks to all who have pit the $2 in it much aperciated. everyones opinon has a valid point and rom reading what everyone has to say it making my desision harder and harder. i am enjoying reading everyones comments thoguh :dance: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam_Q Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Basically your comparing apples, oranges and banana's. All of the the motors above have there advantages, be it price, torque, or power delivery. 20V's are only rumoured to have bad bottom end torque due to poor tuning when running open velocity stacks. Well tuned they have a great linear power curve and keep on giving to well over 7200rpm. If you like cornering you want a nice progressive power curve, something that's easy to put down and not just all of a sudden have your torque double and induce wheel spin. If you want to beat all the bogans in there VL turbo's or V8 commonwhores, a 4AGZE or 4AGTE will definitely be a better choice. If you're a lover of atmo motors and like ITB induction noise you can't look past a 20V. On a race track a stock 20V will leave a stock 4AGZE for dead if well driven. They are a more challenging motor to drive fast, but if you're good on the stick and keep the revs up they are a great track motor. I tottaly agree with everything here. I hear people talk about the poor bottom end of a 20V and I ask compared to what!? Have a look at the dyno graph of my engine, ignore the total power figure its pretty irrelevant, instead look at how flat and predictable the torque curve is. This engine is really easy to drive with and I havent found a hill yet I can't sit on 3000RPM to go up. The red line is with VVT in reverse (ie: think not working) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerhead Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 That's nice power you got out of your 20V sam, I'll have to get you to design my extractors if you're keen :dance: Engine swaps are a pain, there are too many choices ... It's easier not to think about the motor at first, think about what you want the car to be. A corner speed machine, a fast accelerating drag car or a drift car. Of course, like all of us we want them all, but it ends up becoming a compromise of some sort when the car is street driven. What's your plan of use for this car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam_Q Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 well said, PM me for any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo101 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 do you know anyone that has a car with one converted or something? maybe they can take you for a spin so you can see what is good/bad about each motor.. the reason i went for a GZE is so if i want more power down the track (which we all do :dance: ) then i don't have spend heaps to get it..but then again this might just be me :) also what about spare parts for either motor? VVT pulleys arent cheap. most things that fit small port 4age will fit a GZE as its the same base (in a nutshell) as beerhead said, whats the car going to be used for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quadeyquade Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 do you know anyone that has a car with one converted or something? maybe they can take you for a spin so you can see what is good/bad about each motor.. the reason i went for a GZE is so if i want more power down the track (which we all do :dance: ) then i don't have spend heaps to get it..but then again this might just be me :) also what about spare parts for either motor? VVT pulleys arent cheap. most things that fit small port 4age will fit a GZE as its the same base (in a nutshell) as beerhead said, whats the car going to be used for? When I finish my 20v, we should race, not on the street of course;), and test the speeds and stuff of our cars, then report here who won. But its ok we are doing it, it will be for science, not for hooning :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat out Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 3tc, 32/36 weber, 3tgte turbo manifold, get it running, build away to you have your desired hp, i don't hear of many 4a's doing 7 sec 1/4's with 700 hp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixy Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) do you know anyone that has a car with one converted or something? maybe they can take you for a spin so you can see what is good/bad about each motor.. the reason i went for a GZE is so if i want more power down the track (which we all do :dance: ) then i don't have spend heaps to get it..but then again this might just be me :) also what about spare parts for either motor? VVT pulleys arent cheap. most things that fit small port 4age will fit a GZE as its the same base (in a nutshell) as beerhead said, whats the car going to be used for? well i prty much want it to be a really nice drive..... i love hill cruises and the feel of a nice handeling car, i have a nice suspension setup coming so i have that side o it covred. so now i just want to ind a nice motor to laydown the power and torque (excuse the speling) no problems with hills or dropping back from 4g in 3rd to 7g in 2nd...... i don't have anyone who can take me for a spin in anything remotly close to this or anyone with a conversion like this. :hmm: Edited April 10, 2009 by Stixy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerhead Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 You do realise that those 7 second 3T's have billet cranks and capacity around 2.2L... In the real world ... HP / L is how you should compare motors, not 1/4 mile times. 1.6/2.2*700 = 509 hp. That's the power that backyarders 20V turbo is making, and he's running 9 sec passes in FWD. I bet in a RWD shell he'd crack into the 8's. I personally wouldn't fit a 1970's technology motor into a car when there are so many other choices out there. 3tc, 32/36 weber, 3tgte turbo manifold, get it running, build away to you have your desired hp, i don't hear of many 4a's doing 7 sec 1/4's with 700 hp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmac80 Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 You do realise that those 7 second 3T's have billet cranks and capacity around 2.2L... In the real world ... HP / L is how you should compare motors, not 1/4 mile times. 1.6/2.2*700 = 509 hp. That's the power that backyarders 20V turbo is making, and he's running 9 sec passes in FWD. I bet in a RWD shell he'd crack into the 8's. I personally wouldn't fit a 1970's technology motor into a car when there are so many other choices out there. amen! old motors= well old outdated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam_Q Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Stixy: do you have a budget and how much work can you do yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ae92supercharged4u Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I got a gze and I was happy with it since I found out it will be a bit tricky to find the Supercharger itself. Anyway after speaking to a few guys I will definetely chuck a nice t28 in it. So turbo a gze is the best option IMHO and personally I will do it in the next on my shedule after rebuilding the engine. If u gonna do all it yourself you could get away with it under $1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixy Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Stixy: do you have a budget and how much work can you do yourself? Well i kind of do but i kind of don't.... see I'm trying to work out a all up kind of figure and then aim for that with some saving, i have a bit of savings. as for what can i do myself..... well not too much i think, i have never done this sorta thing before but i know a bit o stuff and that is 1/2 the reason i want to do this is to 1. learn some stuff 2. to be able to say that i have done an engine convesion on my car, and 3. have a reaking sweet car..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duggy Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 if you read the build up on my rolla might help u decide a bit its not hard and really not that expensive it cost me about 2500 all up (but i already had an ecu) and i made good power, i really think you should just go 4agte its the best bang for ya buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quadeyquade Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Well i kind of do but i kind of don't.... see I'm trying to work out a all up kind of figure and then aim for that with some saving, i have a bit of savings.as for what can i do myself..... well not too much i think, i have never done this sorta thing before but i know a bit o stuff and that is 1/2 the reason i want to do this is to 1. learn some stuff 2. to be able to say that i have done an engine convesion on my car, and 3. have a reaking sweet car..... With this in mind, I would go 4agze. Would probably be easier than the 20v conversion, and the 4agze is more powerful. Also the 4agze would be a lot easier than the more custom 4agte. Perhaps go 4agze, then look into going 4agte once you have done the swap and gotten a better understanding of your car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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