K Series Timing Chain Covers

[TWF#14]

Yeh i just found one too on a 3k motor no idea what it came out of tho

[towe001]

Early KE30 would be my guess

[Banjo]

Stripped a 3K at the weekend, that someone gave me. Looked in reasonable nick, so stripped to see if anything was usable. Unfortunately, it had thrown a slipper bearing on number 4 conrod, & badly scored the journal.

 

However, I noticed a "protrusion" on the front face of the timing chain cover, which I had never seen on a K Series engine before.

 

 

Lying around my shed is a 3K, 2 x 5Ks, & 2 x 4Ks. I checked all of them, and none had this protrusion.

 

 

The rear of the cover shows a small hole.

 

 

However, the hole went no where.

 

 

I was just about to start a thread to ask what it was for, and thought I'd search, and found this thread. Apparently it is a breather port connection, found on some 3K engines.

 

However, in my case the port was not used, & Toyota just used the cover, without drilling out the "protrusion" to fit the pipe, as depicted earlier in this thread.

 

 

Got me thinking. The hole in the rear of the cover appears to be slightly off the centre line of the camshaft. Could be a perfect place to fit a small Hall Effect sensor, with a small magnet fitted to the camshaft sprocket, in the appropriate spot, to generate a "Home" or "Synchronising" signal for an an electronic inginition system. The "Home" or "Synchronising" signal just tells the ECU that the next trigger signal is no: 1 cylinder. As the camshaft turns at 1/2 crankshaft speed, the "Home" pulse would be generated once every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft, which is just what is required by the ECU.

 

Anyone else ever tinkered with this idea before ?

 

Cheers Banjo

Edited April 6, 2015 by Banjo

[Taz_Rx]

Its not a stupid idea at all. But....given the dizzy runs off the Cam it also does only 1 rev per 2 crank. If you were to do the same thing you're talking about but into a stripped dizzy housing you're going to end up with a pickup that is a lot more accessible to all components. You can also remove the entire unit to work on it on a bench rather than hunched over the radiator tinkering with the Cam sprocket. Also don't know about you but I don't think removing a Cam cover is much fun without having the motor out and being able to drop the whole sump.

Fyi I have some pics of the custom k/sr20 crank angle sensor I built recently in my builds thread.

[Banjo]

Except for the intial fitting of the magnet to the camshaft sprocket, which would be done with the timing chain cover off, with engine on test stand, there would never be a need to get inside the chain cover again. The Hall Effect sensor would simply plug in from the outside. It's position for timing is not critical, as long as it produces a pulse between no:2 & no:1 firings. It just needs to tell the ECU, no: 1 is next.

 

I've been down the track of the Nissan CAS inside the Corolla Bosch dizzy. Tight fit, but did work well.

 

 

I even did a home/synch sensor inside a stripped out dizzy housing. It worked also.

 

 

I liked your turned up Teflon lid for the dizzy & custom clips. Very neat.

 

I found a Nescafe coffee jar lid that was just the right size.

 

 

However, I'd like to not have a distributor at all, which is what I currently have on the test stand engine. Unfortunately, you need the dizzy shaft to drive the oil pump.

 

 

The synch signal allows you to run an ecu with sequential firing, but that of course needs 4 x ignitors, & 4 x coils, although you could get away with a smaller coil.

 

Presently favouring a waste spark system, just using 2 coils. No distributor required. Signal is just two trigger points 180 deg apart on the flywheel, with no synch signal required.

 

However, would like to look at the option of Honda motor bike COPs directly of top of the plugs, which will get rid of the two big bulky GMH coils in the picture above. Brodie in Adelaide has a COP setup like that which is awesome.

 

 

The 4 x COPs allow either sequential or waste spark, by running COPs 1&4 and 2&3 in parallel.

 

Presently just about finished a 7K EFI conversion onto the 4K on the test stand which will take the K series experiments to the next level.

 

 

Cheers Banjo

Edited April 7, 2015 by Banjo

[Taz_Rx]

Ah I remember seeing your setups earlier now.

I found a nice spun stainless lid off one of our coffee/tea/sugar jars that looks really good, don't think I'll use the Teflon cap.

Yeah if you have it all on an engine stand to set it up that will make life a lot easier. You could build some adjustment into the sensor on the timing cover to fine tune timing, however it'll probably be a lot easier with a few button presses on the ecu. I can foresee you might want some adjustment on how deep the sensor protrudes into the cover though to get a reliable pulse. Another thing to bare in mind might be weather you'll get any pulse issues from the sensor being splashed with oil. My current reluctor sensor can start getting some issues at start when the sensor gets slightly dirty.

[Banjo]

All the sensors I've used are Hall Effect, rather than the reluctor type sensors, which have low amplitude outputs at low revs. The reluctor outputs need a bit of processing electronically to make the signal usable. The Hall Effect sensors I use, on the other hand, give a snap action (square wave output with sharp leading edge), and are very reliable, and not effected by oil.

 

 

They are made specifically for automotive use. The use of rare earth magnets attached to the moving part (cam sprocket in this case) results in very wide gap tolerances being possible. I have two rare earth magnets fitted to the flywheel, 180 deg apart, with the Hall Effect sensor protruding through the rear engine plate on the lower distributor side of the engine. I tried gaps from 1 mm to nearly 10mm, with no difference in performance.

 

The sensor on the camshaft would not ever need any "fine tuning" as it is not the ignition trigger signal, but a synch pulse that just tells the ECU that the next trigger pulse it receives will be for cylinder no: 1.

 

I've got an engine block on the bench at present. I'll pop in the camshaft, in the next few days, with the timing chain cover modified, & do a few tests. Can't see any reason why it won't work well.

 

I'll let you know if it works out.

 

I'm not real keen on crankshaft front pulley sensors. The aftermarket ones seem to have brackets & adjustments, and are in a spot at the lower front of the car, that is prone to damage, from road debris.

 

Thats why I chose the flywheel. Hidden away & protected.

 

Cheers Banjo

Edited April 8, 2015 by Banjo

[filfrederick]

Banjo,

I had the same issue with removing the distributor but retaining the shaft for the oil Pump.

came up with the same solution, machining the top off and keeping the bearing surface and shortening the shaft.

just used a welch plug to seal it off.

worked great never had any leaks or issues with it.

[Banjo]

Like the idea of the welch plug ! Yes, I must clean that area up, before I take the engine off the test stand, & into the car.

 

I note you have'nt used the clamp to hold down, (what's left of the distributor boss), in place. Is it wedged in the hole ?

 

Cheers Banjo

[filfrederick]

no, i just didn't have the clamp bolted on in that pic.

it was under the carbs so i wasn't too concerned about the aesthetics.

 

I regret not dry sumping that motor it would have been a lot simpler, seems silly to have the whole camshaft, covers and drive arrangement just to spin the stupid oil pump.

next time...

[altezzaclub]

next time...

 

We will wait with anticipation.....

[Banjo]

next time...

 

We all wait, wondering what the "next project" will be. After the the 4K with twin overhead cam head, I can't imagine how that will be trumped.

 

But that's what the car with engine was sold for, . . . . . the next project ? ? ?

 

What a thread ! ! ! I've read it several times; all 6 pages.

 

Cheers Banjo

Edited April 14, 2015 by Banjo

[filfrederick]

haha, thanks for the confidence!

there is a few things rattling around in the old noggin, but they are going to have to wait.

moving over to England in a few weeks, see if i can cut it with the big boys. now i just have to find a job.

-phil

[Banjo]

Good luck Phil ! Leaving sunny Queensland ?

 

Keep in touch on here, and let us know what you are up to.

 

there is a few things rattling around in the old noggin

 

Reminds me of an olde Black Adder saying . . .

 

"I've got a plan so cunning, you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel !"

 

Cheers Banjo

[filfrederick]

thanks boys, will do.