Ae86 Strut Insert Problem

[rian]

Hey everyone, recently I installed AE86 front coilovers in my KE70. They are the threaded sleeve weld on type and there's something funny going on with them. Now I didn't make them but I've been told they have a Pedders R31 Sports insert in them and the casings have been shortened an unknown amount, although I measured them and they are ~400mm on the outside from top to bottom. The problem is that they have movement in the shaft and this can be felt as a clonk when you go over a bump, and the shaft can be seen moving from side to side when you jack the car up and push and pull on the strut casing. Yet the shocks work fine and don't appear to be leaking, initially I thought one of the bushings in the insert would have been worn and allowed the shaft to move, but this I'm guessing would lead to the seals wearing very quickly and the shock would leak and no longer work properly? I don't have much of an idea of the internals of shock absorbers so I'm not sure of this. Then I thought maybe R31 inserts are a different OD to AE86 inserts, I'm fairly sure the insert is meant to have an OD of 43.5mm and I had a quick google of R31 inserts and didn't really find anything reliable but read somewhere that the OD was ~41.5, still not sure of this. So my first question is; can anyone think of, or does anyone know why of this is happening? And my second question is; If I have to replace the inserts, can someone recommend a brand and model, preferably adjustable, that will work with 8kg/mm springs? I'm think of KYB AGX inserts but I'm aware there are many different models that fit with all different lengths, and I want the car to be pretty low so i can just tuck tyres on 13 or 14inch wheels.

Any help or ideas would be really great.

Thanks, Rian

[parrot]

The answer is you need to pull them out and have a look. Coud be anything in there. But if you have lateral movement in the piston, clearly something is wrong. Possibly as you suggest, an insert with a diameter smaller than the strut casing has been put in and tightened to the shithouse.

 

Shortened struts are a minefield, with lots of possible combos. Really depends on how much has been cut off the casing, and how much travel you need.

 

I have just received some front SW20 AGX inserts I will be installing in an untouched strut casing, with a T3 tube spacer. Hopefully they will suit my application. Waiting on the spacers to arrive.

 

These are vastly cheaper via the US than buying here.

[ke70dave]

luckily the front of an ae86 is VERY simple.

 

only a few things could be the problem

 

1: loose gland nuts

2: shocks are too small.

 

however if the gland nut is done up uber tight (REAAALLLLYYYY tight) even if the shocks are a tad small on the OD then it still shouldnt rattle as bad as you describe.

 

the only way you are going tell is if you pull it all appart and see for yourself.

 

if the shocks are too small in OD you could wrap them in aluminm from a coke can.

 

(43.5-41.5)/2= 1mm gap either side of the shock to take up, so a few layers of aluminum coke can will sort that out, then once the shock can't move side to side in the strut, crank that gland nut up and you shouldnt have any dramas.

 

you could possible find some thin alluminium/steel sheeting somewhere to use as well.

 

first step though? pull it all appart and have a look, as i can only speculate.

[rian]

Thanks for the input guys, I was planning on pulling them apart, I really should have done it this weekend but I don't have the tools at the moment to do it. I guess I'll get the tools together through the week and do it next weekend. I'll see what the go is and get the dimensions of this supposed R31 sports insert, hopefully you're right about the gland nut Dave, or hopefully your aluminium idea works. If not I guess I'll go for some KYB AGXs like you said parrot, it just really sucks paying for this setup and then having to possibly replace the most expensive part of it. Anyway, any other recommendations on inserts; sw20, st185, st204 etc? Or are they all about the same?

[parrot]

You will need to do some measurements of your existing strut tube, then work out the length of strut insert you need, with or without a spacer of some sort.

 

You also need to work out the stroke you need.

 

Then you need to look around and see what suits, insert wise.

 

And that doesn't even consider cost, valving, fashion and so on.....

[LittleRedSpirit]

My money is on a some dodgy spacers to make the insert work under the shock. Perhaps they used shocky washers and they have crushed down over time. Just get real spacers made that fit the profile of the shock and the tube.

 

Id buy Konis if I at all could. From all the research I have been doing I'm finding that serious motorsport types will laugh you out of the room if you have anything less than konis. TRD, KYB and Tokico do not rate a mention in grip driving circles. Buy the best dampers you can!

 

Its this simple.

 

Go to the monroe catalogue.

Look up the size of the 'body length' of the dampers you have.

Compare this measurement to all the other dampers with the same diameter.

Hint - popular choices for this model are: st185-205 celica fronts, sw20 mr2 rears, sv21 camry, there are more but those are the ones most people get. I'm using st185 konis. They are good but I wish my strut tubes were a tiny bit longer so i can sit in a slightly different part of the stroke, I'm a little higher in the stroke than Id have preferred had I modified the tubes myself. The body length of the st185 or sv21 dampers is around 332mm.

[rian]

So I pulled the struts out this afternoon and I guess I'll take them apart soon. Thanks heaps for the info redspirit, I'll have a look into konis, they're super expensive though aren't they. Can't wait to get rid of this clonk in the front end!

[rian]

Okay so I took the struts apart today, LittleRedSpirit you were right about the spacer, there was just an old bent up washer under the insert that wasn't thick enough and the gland nut ran out of thread before it tightened up on the insert. Although the insert has a slightly smaller diameter than the inside of the gland nut it still seems to sit nice and tight in the strut once a bigger washer/spacer was used, so I'm happy and I will more than likely keep using these inserts as I don't see a good enough reason to upgrade yet. If anyone is interested the dimensions on the Pedders R31 Gas Sports Ryder are; extended: 590mm, compressed: 400mm, body: 362mm, diameter: 41.5mm. They seem to work well with ~8kg/mm springs, although I have no experience with any top of the range inserts to make a comparison. Anyway thanks everyone for the input but I think I'll just stick with these inserts for now.