springersrolla Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 hey guys, i know this is a common question but can't seem to find much info, it just seems to be "hey I'm looking at modding my 3/4k, everyone says go 5k" and thats it, so i just got this 5k, good compression, no idea whether is the shallow or deep dished pistons and will check tomorrow, so.....I'm chasing up a 32/36, i can get a set of twin 1 3/4british su's and chasing extractors, and I'm going to the flywheel lightened. what weight has been tried and true? ive read 7kilos.. is this acceptable for the 5k? I'm also thinking of getting a quick cam grind but leads me to.... solid conversion. am i really honestly gonna find a huge improvement and gain in power and rpm, depending to cam of course changing to solids? i have 4k rocker gear sitting here and have read of the 3f lifters. giving me the advantage of the options of solid cams, also do i need a solid cam in replacement of the original hydraulic or can it be ground? is it worth changing heads? shaving the 5k head? info seems to be limited any help would be good, I'm not chasing noise, just a bit of poke for my car that will become my daily bit of street, few hills, few highways so shed some light or please suggest a old topic that i couldnt find cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoidburg Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 That's alot of questions, but I can shed some light in regards to solid lifters. Hydraulic rocker gear is apparently very limited in respect to cam grinds, and tends not to work properly if the cam has been modified too much. As far as I understand it, that's why people put solid rocker gear/cams in their 5K's. Now solid rocker gear will rattle like hell on a hydraulic camshaft, so you need to change to a solid camshaft as well. I'm not sure how exactly, but hydraulic and solid cams are different, so you must match them to the rocker gear you want to use. If you want solids, I have a complete solid lifter package which I've taken off my 5K. Lifters, pushrods and rocker assembly, PM me if you need them. It really depends on what type of cam grind you want, that will determine which is the better option for you. Hope this helped! :happy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 That's alot of questions, but I can shed some light in regards to solid lifters. Hydraulic rocker gear is apparently very limited in respect to cam grinds, and tends not to work properly if the cam has been modified too much. As far as I understand it, that's why people put solid rocker gear/cams in their 5K's. Now solid rocker gear will rattle like hell on a hydraulic camshaft, so you need to change to a solid camshaft as well. I'm not sure how exactly, but hydraulic and solid cams are different, so you must match them to the rocker gear you want to use. If you want solids, I have a complete solid lifter package which I've taken off my 5K. Lifters, pushrods and rocker assembly, PM me if you need them. It really depends on what type of cam grind you want, that will determine which is the better option for you. Hope this helped! :happy: Just question your source of information for your view on hydraulic cams? Hydraulics and solids have VERY different grinding techniques. The 5K I'm selling as a Wade Cams 242A Grind Hydraulic Cam in it with Anti-Pump Up Lifters. The only reason people convert to a solid cam grind is for high rpm use. If you're not going to rev the ring out of it, stick with hydraulic lifters. The stock hydraulic lifters are also good for 8000rpm. Ask Coln72. He used to compete in dirt events with his KE20 and has first hand experience. Get Jono1986 to take you for a spin in his KE35 once he's fitted up the engine and got the twin dellorto's on it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM85 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Use the 5k head. Get it ported but don't shave the shit out of it. With a big cam you'll see an increase in compression any how. The solid lifter conversion isn't as simple as it seems. It depends on what engine you have and what parts you can aquire. You never know it may already be solid. If it has adjustable rocker gear then its a solid lifter D- shaped piiston engine. Keep it simple. Port the head and reseat the valves. Get a cam grind depending on what lifters you've got. Do your flywheel if you want but the hills won't be fun anymore. Make sure it gets plenty of fuel with a good exaust and she'll be sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I've got a 7k in my KE55 running twin SUs (I think they are 2s but they could be 1 3/4). My SUs originally came off a Dollamite Triumph. I believe we got our manifold from Lynx (was relatively cheap and seems to be the go for twin SU conversions). It's got solid lifters too, but the decision to use them over the hydros was made by my dad and all the work done by a mechanic, so I can't really shed any light onto that one (though judging from some recent posts there are many people here who feel hydros are fine and that you don't really gain anything going to solids). The flywheel was also lightened, but for the life of me I can't remember how light it now is (7kg or 9kg). Sorry that none of this actually helps, but hopefully it shows you are on the right track and you aren't doing something that's never been done before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coln72 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Yeah the question with the solid conversion is how high are you going to rev it. Be honest with yourself. If you think you are going to be using 100000 rpm every shift then, good luck to you and go for the solid conversion. In my experience with two 5k's over the years (but a while ago now). First 5k was a torque monster. It had a standard cam, but a ported matched head to a 3kb manifold and carbs. The head was also machined a bit to pump up the compression as far as I could go on pump fuel (leaded in those days :) ). Also had electronic dizzy and some other stuff as well but thats the basics. The difference over the stock 5k was amazing. Hills that would take 4th to accelerate up could be done in 5th gear with ease. The Seond was in my old KE20 club car. It had a standard head, a cobbled together 3kb carby set up, a Wade 169(?) reground cam and alot of little things done to it that I am a little fuzzy on now. This motor could and would wind of the tacho, which was 8000rpm. Shift light was set at 7500rpm to help me remember to change ;) but during a motorkhana it would be on constantly. Both these 5k's had hydrolic lifters that came with the motors and I had no issues with them. I hated keeping the solids in adjustment when I ran 3k's as they always seemed to loosen up with big revs...... Now I wished I got around to combining the big compression with the reground cam :( There is a youtube vid of my old '20 in action if you want to hear it in action. Edited January 6, 2011 by coln72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbey Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 so.....I'm chasing up a 32/36, i can get a set of twin 1 3/4british su's and chasing extractors, and I'm going to the flywheel lightened. what weight has been tried and true? ive read 7kilos.. is this acceptable for the 5k? Weight is not the key factor, it's got much more to do with where they take the weight from. Just give it to a clutch machining joint and get them to do it, forget the numbers. get it stress relieved also. I'm also thinking of getting a quick cam grind but leads me to.... solid conversion. am i really honestly gonna find a huge improvement You wont find any performance gain by a solid conversion. It simply comes down to which camshaft you buy, you get either a hydraulic one or a solid one. I suggest you just go with the hydraulic one and save yourself the pains. is it worth changing heads? shaving the 5k head? info seems to be limited Info is not limited. It's everywhere. Take your head to an engine builder along with your manifold of choice (SU manifold etc) and get them to portmatch and a mild polish. Get them to modify the head to get the compression ratio you are after. Don't stuff around with 3k big port heads. Hydraulic rocker gear is apparently very limited in respect to cam grinds, and tends not to work properly if the cam has been modified too much. As far as I understand it, that's why people put solid rocker gear/cams in their 5K's. Sorry zoidburg, but you're way off the mark. A hydraulic cam runs hydraulic lifters. Solid cam for solid lifters. There is no limitations other than the difference in ramp rates. You can get a big fat hydraulic cam, you can get a mild solid cam and vice versa. I suggest you download a copy of Wade Cams CAM-CAT (click here) and have a look through the selection of Hydro and Solid profiles they offer for the K engine, there is no way you could consider the selection to be "limited" The only reason people convert to a solid cam grind is for high rpm use. If you're not going to rev the ring out of it, stick with hydraulic lifters. The stock hydraulic lifters are also good for 8000rpm. Ask Coln72. He used to compete in dirt events with his KE20 and has first hand experience Don't even need to talk to Coln72, I run a huge hydraulic cam (~.480 lift!) and it gets revved hard. It is more than ample for a daily driver and honestly when do you really need to hit 8000rpm? Certainly not in a street car. I have had no issues in 2 years of daily driving and I have no idea where my feeler gauges are because I don't need to gap tappets. Use the 5k head. Get it ported but don't shave the shit out of it. With a big cam you'll see an increase in compression any how. The solid lifter conversion isn't as simple as it seems. It depends on what engine you have and what parts you can aquire. You never know it may already be solid. If it has adjustable rocker gear then its a solid lifter D- shaped piiston engine. Keep it simple. Port the head and reseat the valves. Get a cam grind depending on what lifters you've got. Do your flywheel if you want but the hills won't be fun anymore. Make sure it gets plenty of fuel with a good exaust and she'll be sweet. GJM i think you meant to say that you can increase your static compression with a bigger cam (Larger cams reduce the dynamic compression)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snot35 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 If the block is good to go, I wouldn't muck with it. You can tackle lifter conversions and that sort of thing if and when you need to. Confirm that you have hydraulic lifters and then get a cam ground for that. If you do have hydro's you'll not have to worry about adjusting them all the time. Good exhaust and intake setup and you should have a pretty fun car. If you can sort some 1.5 inch SU's they are a very drivable setup, or the 32/36 should be OK on a 5K as well. Just put aside some funds for getting them jetted properly after you've finalised the cam and exhaust. If you change the head then you're going to have a lot of work getting the rocker gear all setup again, probably for no real gain. The small chamber 5K head (likely what you have) actually has quite a well designed port compared to earlier heads. Out of the box the ports are larger and have a better shape than earlier heads. The 242A grind looks to be a good choice if you can get it ground for hydro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoidburg Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) "Sorry zoidburg, but you're way off the mark. A hydraulic cam runs hydraulic lifters. Solid cam for solid lifters. There is no limitations other than the difference in ramp rates. You can get a big fat hydraulic cam, you can get a mild solid cam and vice versa". Of course a hydro cam runs hydro lifters and solid cam runs solid lifters, I think you should read my post again. I was saying that if you mix and match the two, things don't work out so well! Also I was told by a cam guy that if you grind a hydro cam down too far, the rocker gear may rattle. I was advised against it, but each to their own. I'd really appreciate it if people would read my posts properly before they judge, just a suggestion. Edited January 10, 2011 by Zoidburg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbey Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) I carefully read all posts before responding. I also carefully reread my own posts after posting to check for accuracy. You said that "hydraulic rocker gear is apparently very limited in respect to cam grinds..." a statement which is incorrect as there are huge choices in both solid and hydro cam grinds. My "solids for solids, hydro for hydraulics" comment was to reiterate the point you'd already made. Edited January 10, 2011 by philbey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoidburg Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 I carefully read all posts before responding. I also carefully reread my own posts after posting to check for accuracy. You said that "hydraulic rocker gear is apparently very limited in respect to cam grinds..." a statement which is incorrect as there are huge choices in both solid and hydro cam grinds. My "solids for solids, hydro for hydraulics" comment was to reiterate the point you'd already made. Since you're being picky now... The keyword in my statement was "apparently". In other words that's what I heard from several people on the subject, and not what I know for sure. Hence the use of the word... "apparently". There was no indication in your reply that your intention was to reiterate. Secondly why reiterate a point I already made, and then not put it in any form of context? Was only trying to help, not start a grammar contest. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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