Can The Plane Fly?

[Jason]

AHH. They push air.

 

It dosnt matter though. The wheels/skids are still linked to the motors. I still can not see, in ANY situation they plane taking off.

 

You have to throw petrol powerd planes don't you? If you just hold them (sitting on you palm) in you hand, they don't fly! You can try this at home. Get a model plane and put it on a treadmill

Edited December 19, 2005 by Jason

[Rolla__Boy]

AHH. They push air.

 

It dosnt matter though. The wheels/skids are still linked to the motors. I still can not see, in ANY situation they plane taking off

 

That isn't how they move the plane...that is how they work...How they move the plane...is by pushing it

Edited December 19, 2005 by Rolla__Boy

[James]

why don't we biuld one and see how it goes.

I am first inline to be the test pilot :D

I believe I would have the most flying hours, 12 hours on a student lincenc and 1 solo flight in a ultralight.

Can any one beat that?

 

soon I will be flying hang gliders, I am currently learning.

 

AHH. They push air.

 

It dosnt matter though. The wheels/skids are still linked to the motors. I still can not see, in ANY situation they plane taking off.

 

You have to throw petrol powerd planes don't you? If you just hold them (sitting on you palm) in you hand, they don't fly! You can try this at home. Get a model plane and put it on a treadmill

There is absolutly no link between the engin and the wheels. the only thing that moves an aircraft is the thrust created by the turbines or props.

[Jason]

yes but they are still pyhicly linked. I'm not saying the wheels drive the plane. Trying jump with you chair, but insted of pushing on the ground push on the legs (spinny rotating chair)

Edited December 19, 2005 by Jason

[Rolla__Boy]

ok, You have a treadmill, you have a remote control car, you set the treadmill on exactly the same speed as the car is going, and it will just sit there, with the wheels spinning at the desired speed.

 

Set the treadmill at the same speed, and take a matchbox car, and push it up the treadmill, you can push it up the treadmill, with the wheels spinning the same speed as the treadmill, because the force effected from your hand pushing the car will move it up the treadmill, similarly, the plane will move forward from the force of the thrust from the engine, so it will be able to take off.

[Mr Revhead[RL]]

yeah, the wheels while attatched to the same structure...... they work independantly

 

the engines create thrust. unless there is a force counter acting that, it HAS to move.

there is no opposing force other than air resistance and the friction in the wheel bearings.

 

the wheels can turn independant to the plane.....

 

in effect the wheels are just acting like bearings.

 

you are stil thinking like the plane is propelled by the wheels, not so. the wheels are only there to minimise friction. they serve no other purpose

[Jason]

i see were you getting at. The plane is beeing pushed through the air by the jets, even if the wheels are doubling in speed the plane still goes foward like normal. But if the wheel speeds have doubled the belt doubles as well.... And it contunies like this.

 

 

But all the energy would be converted into trying to make the wheel spin faster. leving none for the plane to move forward. Unless you just ingnor that, then yeah it will take off then.....

Edited December 19, 2005 by Jason

[Rolla__Boy]

Are you even reading?

[Jason]

yes, but there a thing called the conservation of energy :bash:

 

And then typing that, I realised its linked to the engineering part (I was just thinking to ignore the intense speeds) in assuming there would be no heat :D My bad. Brain fart

Edited December 19, 2005 by Jason

[tom210]

ohh yep.. sorry well after reading and thinking abit more, i think it would, just the wheels would spin faster (i drew a picture helps alot) the matchbox car on the treadmill is a good example.. but you would have to move it at the same speed as the treadmill otherwise the wheels would spin faster....but readin again, the treadmill is the same as wheel speed so it wouldnt matter how fast you pushed it......AAARRRRRGGGGHHHH

 

but... the wheels mean jack so i dunno.....

Edited December 19, 2005 by tom210

[Rolla__Boy]

I could move the car as slowly as I wanted, the wheels can spin as fast as they like...they have nothing to do with how fast I push the car up the treadmill.

[ancullen]

Mr Revhead: I've been thinking some more about this. Say that the jets create enough thrust to move the plane forward at 30km/h. If the plane was on the ground (with no conveyor belt), this would mean that the wheels would have to be spinning fast enough to do 30km/h.

 

Now we put the conveyor belt back into the equation, and it must match the speed of the wheels in the opposite direction. The plane will still move forward at 30km/h due to the thrust from the engines. Right? So for the conveyor belt to match the speed of the wheels but in the opposite direction, wouldn't both the wheels and conveyor belt be doing 60km/h?

 

I know that this isn't essential to the question and we know the plane will take off, but it got me thinking.

[Redwarf]

My brain hurts.

 

In my humble opinion, I believe that the plane wont fly.

 

As soon as you advence the throttle, the a/c moves forward, te conveyer belt moves aft at the same speed as the wheel. More forward thrust, more reverse conveyer. It's the same effect as if you put the brakes on and push the power (symetrically of course. Advance one throttle to take off, and leave the other at idle, and the plane jumps chocks and cuts hoops.) You can have both engines at take off power, and the plane won't go anywhereand unless the runway is wet, there isn't enough power to skull drag the plane, and you'll never get it up to speed anyway.

 

No airspeed over wings, no lift, no fly.

[Super Jamie]

of course the plane can't f@$king fly, wheels are irrelevant to flight, the thing that makes lift is air moving at two differing speeds over a wing surface

 

if the plane isn't moving, there is no movement of air over the wing, there is no lift, there is no flight

 

i can't believe you guys went on for 3 pages about this

[ancullen]

But aren't the jet engines/propellors the things actually thrusting the plane forward? I had been led to believe that the wheels don't provide any driving force. If the wheels are the driving force to get the plane up to speed, then the plane won't take off (obviously). But if the jets are thrusting the plane forward then all the wheels have to do is roll to reduce friction with the ground. The conveyor belt won't make any difference.