Redwarf Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 As stated in post 1, the conveyer is designed to go in he opposite direction to wheel movement. The wheels/ aircraft still has to have a forward vector to be able to go anywhere. Although the engine is the motive force, it still rolls on wheels to get there. Unless you're engines can give you a vertical vector, and has enough grunt, you still have to be able move forward. Nothing in the first post says that the wheels have to drive the conveyer, only that the conveyer moves in exactly the same speed (in reverse) as the wheels. Ergo, no forward movement, no airflow over wings, no lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Jamie Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 forget the wheels and the conveyor belt. take them away, and bolt the plane directly to the ground, with something so strong it will never break now turn the engines on. is there lift? no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 The man has spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolla__Boy Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 But the plane will move on the conveyor belt, the same as my car moved on the treadmill, even with it on, because there is a greater force pushing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Jamie Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 a non-moving wing does not generate lift. scientific fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 The way I see it, is this; If you had a plane, on its belly, no wheels or nothing, and you fired up the engines, would it move? I doubt it. So, for every bit of forward movement that the plane generates through its thrust, will essentially be scrubbed off by the identical speeds of the conveyor belt going in the opposite direction, therefore creating no lift by the wings, therfore no flight. Now this is probably wrong, i'm absolutely shithouse at science etc. I hope I havent said the same thing as Redwarf, I know that he is posting at the moment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 But it won't move linearly on the conveyer belt, because as soon as wheel speed increases, so will conveyer speed. Wheel speed and conveyer speed cancel each other out, as Jamie stated. It does matter how much thrust you have, it ay as well be bolted to the ground. 52K lbs of combined 737 thrust isn't enough to skull drag 60 tonnes of a/c to any decent speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolla__Boy Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 I never said the wing can fly without moving, but the plane will move. As the plane does not require the wheels to provide drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) Why will the a/c move? As soon as it starts to move the conveyer will move in the opposite direction. It doesn't need the wheels to drive it, it just operates when the wheels move. If the wheels aren't moving, the plane isn't moving. Edited December 19, 2005 by Redwarf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 The wheels simply are a load bearing device that provides a slippery surface (bearings, I know that this is a bad explanation) for the thrust to use its potential energy. Therefore, when the thrust directs its potential energy to the wheels, the conveyor belt cancels out that potential energy. I hope this is right lol... Everyones disappeared... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 the convayer belt would have no effect on the aircraft, since unlike a corolla the aircraft does not reliy on the ground to move, there is no drive line attched to the wheels. The aircraft would use the air to push its self and not the conveyer and thus gain speed for take off. The only problem I can see with this setup is that the wheel berings will fail pematurly due to excess rotations cause by the conveyer belt manitaing the same speed I reread the question and I get the impression that the belt is designed to keep the wheels still. "The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation. " and the belt is moving in the same direction as the aircraft. any way an aircraft don't care how fast its wheels are spinning as long as its air speed is right it will take off :D The air craft will fly, the thrust is acting upon the air not the conveyer belt. The wheels are just free loaders (they just get a free spin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 But if you look at it from the example that I had brung up, with a jet/plane/aircraft with ANY type of flying mechanism, being on the ground with no wheels or skids, would it generate enough thrust to actually move? I think not. So, essentially, if my theory is correct, the wheels ARE an integral part of the planes flying mechanism. The thrust directs its energy to the wheels, indirectly, so that the plane can move... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 I reread the question and I get the impression that the belt is designed to keep the wheels still. "The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation. and the belt is moving in the same direction as the aircraft. As I read it, an incorrect statement. If the wheels are rotating in a clockwise diection, the conveyer will be traveling in a counter clockwise direction, therefore the conveyer will be traveling in the other diection to which the a/c wants to go. Trust me. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 However I can see a reason why it WOULD take off. When a plane stops when it touches down on a runway, it uses its jets to scrub off its speed, by operating them in the reverse motion. From what I can see, as James said, the wheels would be simply there for the 'free ride'. So, perhaps a plane could take off. BUT, I have looked at this from my original idea. The conveyor belt would simueltaneously speed up with the aeroplane, yes? Therefore, when the thrust becomes great enough for the aeroplane to take off, the wheels in the reverse motion will simply scrub off the speed. This has got me puzzled, theres reasons why it SHOULD or SHOULDN'T take off. Bring on mythbusters.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolla__Boy Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 But if you look at it from the example that I had brung up, with a jet/plane/aircraft with ANY type of flying mechanism, being on the ground with no wheels or skids, would it generate enough thrust to actually move? I think not. So, essentially, if my theory is correct, the wheels ARE an integral part of the planes flying mechanism. The thrust directs its energy to the wheels, indirectly, so that the plane can move... The wheels are only there to hold the plane off the ground. Obviously, if you have no wheels, the friction will be too great for the plane to move, that's why they put wheels on it. Read me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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