Dyzza Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I see that most of you are starting to agree with my first post and all other posts, basicly stating that the thrust of the turbines will push the aircraft to take of speed, regadless of the speed of the conveyer. Yep. I only just discovere this thread, been frustrated reading some of the stubborn values that people were sticking to ! ARG! plane will workey. Refer to Ancullen's post on previous page. LOCK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Jamie Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 then you obviously didn't read the initial hypothesis The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation. for there to be enough airspeed for lift, or even for the plane to change its position, there needs to be a speed differential between the conveyor and the wheels, which will never happen. how the wheels start spinning is irrelevant, how the plane motivates itself is irrelevant, the fact that it is stuck on one particular latitude and longtitude negates the fact that there is ever going to be air moving over the wings to generate lift and allow flight to take place how much more simple does it get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xany Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I agree with jamie.....lock the f@$ker 8 pages of absolute crap......who really gives a f@$k? not me thats for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) I can see your point of view, however I'm still with Jamie. You still need wheels to turn to move a/c, and that won't happen with a conveyer underneath. My opinion is that you still won't have lineal movement, even if you have the f@$king space shuttle attached the airframe. I'm not sure there really is a right and wrong answer. (Except mine of course!) RMD, L542011 Edited December 20, 2005 by Redwarf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolla__Boy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 then you obviously didn't read the initial hypothesisfor there to be enough airspeed for lift, or even for the plane to change its position, there needs to be a speed differential between the conveyor and the wheels, which will never happen. how the wheels start spinning is irrelevant, how the plane motivates itself is irrelevant, the fact that it is stuck on one particular latitude and longtitude negates the fact that there is ever going to be air moving over the wings to generate lift and allow flight to take place how much more simple does it get? How the plane motivates itself is the whole key to this story. You keep saying that a plane sitting still wont have lift, and wont fly. We all know that, that is not what is at question here. What is at question is whether the plane will move. And it will, as the wheels are not the driving force, if the wheels had drive, then you would be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Jamie Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 *smacks forehead* thrust is applied by the engines to AIR!!! the wheels provide nothing more than a low-friction axle for the times when the plane is on the ground and airspeed over the wing is low enough that lift isn't generated to fight gravity the plane moves itself through the AIR by use of the prop/engines, the wheels can spin as fast as they like, the ground speed is irrelevant once the engines are activated. the air is not acting against the forward motion of the aircraft, hence forward motion is achieved and the plane can take off i concede defeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolla__Boy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Is he just sayin that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSydneyCruising Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) I'm with jamie and Redwarf if the wheels are moving at the same speed as the conveyer, then the plane isnt moving. the plane HAS to move to get wind force to lift it off the ground! no matter how hard those jets are working the conveyer is keeping up = no movement = no air = no lift. I gave up on this late the other night cause it was too boring. but now i see the point. Edited December 20, 2005 by MissSydneyCruising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Revhead[RL] Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 8 pages? bah pussies! there are forums around with over a hundred pages! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyzza Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 How the plane motivates itself is the whole key to this story. You keep saying that a plane sitting still wont have lift, and wont fly. We all know that, that is not what is at question here. What is at question is whether the plane will move. And it will, as the wheels are not the driving force, if the wheels had drive, then you would be correct. no matter how hard those jets are working the conveyer is keeping up = no movement = no air = no lift. don't people get it ? The wheels aren't car wheels, they aren't attached to the engines. They FREESPIN. It doesn't matter how fast they spin (within reason) or which direction, the plane will STILL go forward when the jets are switched on. 4 Jets on full throttle won't be stopped by the plane's tyres freespinning on the conveyor belt --> there is no friction. Rolla boy i'm with you here ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 (edited) don't people get it ? The wheels aren't car wheels, they aren't attached to the engines. They FREESPIN. It doesn't matter how fast they spin (within reason) or which direction, the plane will STILL go forward when the jets are switched on. 4 Jets on full throttle won't be stopped by the plane's tyres freespinning on the conveyor belt --> there is no friction. Rolla boy i'm with you here ... Well, yes I do, I just happen to disagree with you. I happen to have a different view on it. It's a free country. I conider it to be the same as running the engines with the brakes on. No matter how much you push the power, it still isn't going anywhere. Edited December 20, 2005 by Redwarf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Jamie Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 nah, they are actually right with the brakes on, there is a force attached to the body of the plane (brake calipers) resisting movement against the freespinning wheels which are attached to the ground, hence the plane will never move with the brakes off, there is nothing except bearing friction to resist the force of the engines thrusting the plane through the air. the plane does not NEED the wheels to move, they are just there to ALLOW it to move over ground. on an airliner, bearing friction is negligible imagine this same hypothesis, but instead of powering the engines of the plane on the runway, there is another plane flying overhead with a towrope. as it flies past, the towrope tightens and it pulls the other plane along this runway. logic dictates that the ground plane will have to move, as the towing plane is moving through air and the ground has no effect on the force it can apply to the ground plane how is the towing plane any different to engine thrust? it's not, they are both forces moving the ground plane's BODY through AIR. axle bearing drag from the conveyor belt will have a miniscule effect on the speed of the runway plane, but essentially the wheels of a plane are DESIGNED to freespin, with as little friction as possible, to allow the plane can take off under thrust that propels it through the AIR to me, the thing that makes it click is that the plane does not motivate itself along the ground, it motivates itself through air. the air is not resisting the force of the plane moving through it. the near-frictionless ground surface is irrelevant once the engines apply thrust to the body of the aircraft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siddy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 THE f@$kN PLANE WONT FLY! i would have thought that is EXTREMELY obvious... Momentum and lift? 0 Didnt u guys do yr 7 science? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Jamie Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 ps: this thread is still f@$kin stupid :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Revhead[RL] Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 but it is different, as using the brakes is friction.... the ground isnt moving, nor it the wheel so unless the engines over come the friction of pads on disc, or tyre on ground, it can't move. in the belt scenario friction is eliminated by the wheels which are free to turn. gong back to that link someone posted early, it makes reference to an experiment where they placed a thrust powered model on a conveyer belt and meauserd its time over X distance. then did the same on the ground. the times were so close to being the same that the only difference was the friction from the increaseed wheel speed. which was sweet FA. that proves the plane can take off to me, the thing that makes it click is that the plane does not motivate itself along the ground, it motivates itself through air. the air is not resisting the force of the plane moving through it. the near-frictionless ground surface is irrelevant once the engines apply thrust to the body of the aircraft thats it exactly :) welcome to the darkside jamie :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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