Sway Bars

[Teddy]

can't think of any others off the top of my head

can't think of any others off the top of my head

 

What about the magical PROFLEX !!!!!

 

it is _ de _ best !

 

( $ $ $ $ )

 

:D

[Redwarf]

I run stiffer than standard swaybars, but not by a large margin. I found that it made the car at least appear to handle better (on smooth road), but it also made it a lot more snappy. But then, stiffer suspension (whether springs, shocks and/or swaybars) will make the car like that.

 

I've driven Rob's car, and found it to be a hell of a lot easier to drive than mine, although at the end of the day I still rather like the point-and-squirt directness of mine. But it is harder to drive, and a lot easier to completely stuff up.

 

 

I was more thinking of evo1. It sits a hell of a lot more flat than evo2 does. I really don't like the roll in Evo2, but I'm changing springs agian, and a set of re-valved Billies should help too.

 

Evo 1 sat much better on the raod, the photo shows it in dirt trim, slightly higher than standard, under fairly serious cornering load. Realistically, that isn't a whole lot of body roll. There is less in road trim.

Photos to bve added when I work it out...)

[muller]

so what your saying is that i need to put evo1 suspension under my ke25?? :D

 

all evo's are fantastic at just about everything and are renound for excellent handeling charactaristicts. personally my fav car is actually the evo3 gsr and yes i know its rice and NO i don't care.

 

why the hell is good suspension so expensive dam it. you really don't need top shelf to make an old rolla handel 'well' but not fully hectik as such.

[demuire]

Haha, Rob is talking about his KE25 (which is known to all as Evo 1. His TE55 is Evo2)

 

There are also two main schools of thought to suspension setups - soft springs stiff swaybars, and soft swaybars stiff springs. Both can achieve "good" handling, but are different. I tend to go with the soft springs stiff swaybars approach, hence the spring rates in my AE35 are actually only very marginally higher than Robs KE25 - although I'm almost certain my AE35 would be a good maybe 150-200kg heavier. I think my rear springs are actually the same, my front springs are 25lb heavier.

 

Both approaches will lead to a car that will be more snappy and tend to "skip" over rough roads, I like the stiff swaybar approach because it doesn't affect the front-rear weight transfer as much as the stiff spring approach.

 

Just my 2c. Like I said, the handling of my car is far from perfect, so maybe I'm all wrong. But I like to think I'm at least half right.

[muller]

Haha, Rob is talking about his KE25 (which is known to all as Evo 1. His TE55 is Evo2)

 

Both approaches will lead to a car that will be more snappy and tend to "skip" over rough roads, I like the stiff swaybar approach because it doesn't affect the front-rear weight transfer as much as the stiff spring approach.

 

Just my 2c. Like I said, the handling of my car is far from perfect, so maybe I'm all wrong. But I like to think I'm at least half right.

 

don't i feel like a dick :$ whats the evo 3 gonna be then :D

 

I like the stiff swaybar approach because it doesn't affect the front-rear weight transfer as much as the stiff spring approach. how does a sway bar designed for sidways movement minimalisation affect front to back movement?

[demuire]

how does a sway bar designed for sidways movement minimalisation affect front to back movement?

 

Exactly, it doesn't really affect it at all. Unlike putting big heavy springs all round, where movement in any direction is affected.

[muller]

but people wouldnt do it if it wernt worth it. heavy springs are worth a bit sometimes and it wouldnt be worth doin it if it didnt work

[demuire]

No no, not saying it doesn't work - it does. It just works differently. It's a different approach at the same problem. They both work, it's just a matter of which results you like better.

[Super Jamie]

exactly right. there is no "right" or "wrong" in suspension. there is no "best" spring rate or swaybar. it's all dependant on the vehicle size, shape, weight, and weight balance, as well as what other modifications have been done to the other parts of the suspension and to the vehicle itself

 

and the most important factor is the driver, and their preferred method of handling. two drivers with very different driving styles and suspension setups can still maintain very close times around the same circuit

 

this is what makes class racing so exciting. from wrc, formula 1, v8 supercars, etc right down to aussie legends, all the cars are more or less equally equipped power-wise, it's down to driver skill and suspension setup

 

we are simply telling you what we have tried and have found works for us, and what we have found to be less desireable

[Redwarf]

^^^^^ As above.

 

At the end of the day, a good spring and shock package is a must. Some people have used swaybars in the past to try and mask inadequicies in the rest of the suspension, and that's not the way to go. Suspension is very much personal choice, and I suscribe to a different philosophy to Fook, however, the end results are similar.

[demuire]

Agreed. If you want to learn more about suspension and what the different parts of your suspension actually do, hopefully to help you make up your mind about which philosophy you would like to follow - I'd recommend "How To Make Your Car Handle" by Fred Phun.

[muller]

ill have a look at that asap, cause after the engine thats my next big step.

 

at the moment i see it that you should have stiff springs as you get more out of them than a swaybar in respect to tuneability. then if you still need more or you decide you want it stiffer for whatever reason then add a medium swaybar or something.

 

am i completely off track by that or is that ok?

 

because the one method will more affect front back and side to side movement and the other will only really target side to side novement. dosent one stand a little above the other. i understand what jamie said about yous just stating how things have worked for you or havent but i find it a little hard to go with two completely differend methods being so neck and neck.

 

but hey, I'm new to trying to make a rolla handle and any advide is well apreciated :rocknroll:

Edited January 7, 2006 by muller

[muller]

and where would you reccoment on getting the How To Make Your Car Handle by Fred Phun book from and does anyone know what its worth roughly. i am looking right now but I'm not having uch luck. just gettin a bunch of links that mention the book.

[demuire]

Umm, I found mine in a Japanese bookstore in Sydney, strangely enough. You can get it from Pitstop Books:

 

http://www.pitstop.net.au/pitstop/page/tec...nsion/1734.html

 

Be warned that it is a *VERY* technical book that would probably make your head explode the first time you read it. It's also quite old, but that is good for old Corollas because a lot of the suspension theories apply (live axles, leaf springs etc).

 

I've also been recommended (although have not read) the Carroll Smith books ie Tune To Win and Prepare To Win. Not sure if there are others.

 

http://www.pitstop.net.au/pitstop/page/tec..._tech/9978.html

http://www.pitstop.net.au/pitstop/page/tec..._tech/9224.html

 

Ultimately you are right in saying that you'd use your swaybars to fine tune the suspension in your car, and that you have to get a good spring rate first. The difference in the two train of thoughts is some people prefer to go with soft springs and a heavy swaybar, and some people prefer to go with heavy springs and a soft or even no swaybar. In both cases, you still tune the suspension with the swaybar. Of course, there is only so much tuning you can do with the swaybar, so you need to get the springrates sort of ballpark right in the first place.

 

The good thing about soft springs is that it's forgiving. That's why stock cars are easy to drive. They rarely snap, and just tend to waddle around. If you have adjustable swaybars, you can tune your suspension very quickly to suit where you're driving, or the weather you're driving in. One of my friends who used to race an Integra R in IP class used to just disconnect his swaybars when it rained. We constantly used to change the swaybar settings on the Porsche GT3 depending on how slippery the road was. We do the same on the Mini's.

 

I think at the end of the day the main thing to remember is that you want the suspension to be only as hard as it needs to be. If it is too soft, you'll get too much roll which would affect the angle of your tyres etc (not to mention possibly bottoming out), too hard and you won't get enough weight transfer and so won't grip as much as if it was softer. More grip = more stiffness.

 

It's all very complex. I hardly understand it myself :rocknroll:

[demuire]

Just thought I'd mention it, once spoke to a "drifter" person, and he recons the perfect suspension set up for an AE86 is 600lb springs on the front, 400lb springs on the back, no swaybars. Apparently swaybars destroy the handling of a car, and to make your car handle better you should take them off. He still won drift competitions and stuff, so I guess that setup worked for him. Although, with springrates like that on a light car like an AE86, you'd have to wonder why he even bothered putting springs in it at all...