20 Valve Ae86 / Ke70 Conversion Parts Interchangeability

[KE7T]

HI ALL i am in the process of converting my ke70 to 20 valve black top . Currently i am purchacing bits and pieces for the build and will be using all SQ ENGINEERING parts for the 20 valve conversion . The way i would like to go about it is to use as much toyota factory bolt on parts as possible and to have it looking as if it came from the factory that way . I need an efi fuel tank and will the ae86 efi tank bolt directly into my ke70 and would the original ae86 in tank fuel pump be ok for the 20 valve or could a better type be made to fit inside of the tank ? .I have decided to go with the AE71 T50 5 speed along with a JDM RHS slave cylnder bell housing then i will run a braided line directly from the mastercylnder to the slave this way it will be opposite the hot extractors but need to know if the AE71 T50 LHS clutch fork + slave cylnder + fork dust boot is the same as the JDM. For road use is the stock t50 gearing ok for the 20 valve or would an expensive close ratio gear set work better ? i intend to run the 3.89 or closest diff ratio avaliable in the t series ae86 factory disk braked lsd diff so i will have the same overdrive as the ae71 /4a / t50 sprint i recently sold . Finally does the ae86 diff housig use the same sway bar mounting points / brackets as the ke70 THANKYOU ALL FOR READING AND REPLYING TO MY POST

[snot35]

My setup isn't in the car yet, but I've put an AE71 sourced clutch fork and bits into a JDM bell and it looks to be fine. I still have to source a dust boot, so I can't confirm that. If you're wanting to run a 3.89 then I would definitely not try and find a CR kit. It will be a slug to get off the line. I'm pretty sure AE86 T series are generally 4.3. Despite that I wouldn't change the gears. A CR kit is for when you will be working in a narrower speed range. If it's for street driving, keep it to the stock ratios. The nice thing about the 20V is the VVT, so it should be nice and drivable as well as being able to rev when you want it.

[LittleRedSpirit]

slave is different, all other bits are identical.

 

The diff will fit, but 3.89 is a stupid ratio for a 20v into ke70.

 

If you want close gear ratios but don't want to spent $3000 on a trd or Quaife gearset, then your best to use 4.556 or 4.7:1 final drive. This will bring all the gears closer in the box and keep you in the power by pulling higher revs.

 

You cannot have it both ways, you either want a tall 5th or you want a fun car.

Edited April 1, 2012 by LittleRedSpirit

[the witzl]

I found that a nice balance of ratios for "fun" driving and street driving, was the AE71 T50 with a 4.11:1 final ratio diff centre.

This was with a smallport 16V 4age which was daily driven.

 

Yes a closer ratio would take off faster, but would piss you off in street driving having to change gears regularly, and youd be sitting at like 4000rpm doing 110kph on the freeway.

No thanks!

 

4.11:1 centres are also easy to find.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the AE86/AE71 do share the same swaybar mounting points.

I'll kow for sure soon enough when i get some AE86 swaybars and try to fit them to my KE70.

[parrot]

4.3's in combination with a T50 are fine in a street car too, but harder to find compared to 4.11.

[LittleRedSpirit]

Yes a closer ratio would take off faster, but would piss you off in street driving having to change gears regularly, and you'd be sitting at like 4000rpm doing 110kph on the freeway.

No thanks!

 

 

I'm pretty sure the AE86/AE71 do share the same swaybar mounting points.

I'll know for sure soon enough when I get some AE86 swaybars and try to fit them to my KE70.

 

 

I've daily driven a 20v 4age ae71 with 3.9, 4.1, 4.3 and 4.5:1 and I think 4.5 or 4.7 is the way to go.

 

It sits on 3600 at 100klm/hr in 5th with 195/50 r15 tyres. For a 20v that's about idle. Its fairly efficient at thos rpms anyhow. You see no real loss of economy. Plus the lower final drive makes all your taller gears useful once you really start driving the thing. What's good about it isn't that it gets off the line quick. It does, but if you hammer first then you're straight into second within 2 seconds. First gear just flies by. Its not that fun and its not an option for a down shift on a tight corner as its just too short. You will beat bigger more powerful cars to 60klm/hr 100% of the time with it, but its too short for any real driving. Theres also an art to getting it into second at high rpm with a t50 quickly.

 

Where the lower final drive really excels is in 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th gears. It pulls a lot better through these gears. I found the car was a slug with 3.9, the speed you needed to have power down even coming out of a corner in second was always just a few hundred rpm above where the power really comes on in the 20v, so you were always unable to power out nicely. You always had to wait to build some more rpm to really get it moving, and then it didn't accelerate as quickly.

 

If you want economy, are happy having a slightly blunt object as a daily drive, then use the 3.9. Just use the stock Borg warner up first as its about as safe a diff as you can have to get used to the car.

 

If you enjoy spirited driving, then go the shorter gearing. If you plan to drift it on the weekends

or do track work you will be lost without short gearing, especially since you have more rpm available than the smallport that was compared above.

 

and for the witzl,

 

I have had ae86 swaybar in a ke70 before, it was fine, but the adjustable didnt fit due to a clash with the brakes and a poor s link design. Thats a known issue with whiteline, but I can see that if there are any problems they will only be with brake clearance.

[the witzl]

hmmm.... will have to wait and see when i get those swaybars then, and whether they will clear the HPC brake upgrade.

Otherwise, i'll tes them with the XT130 LCAs i have and if they fit with those.... and keep that whole front setup for post-engineering (xt130 lcas increase track too much for engineering)

 

 

Yes i know the art of shifting the T50's gears quickly.

How else do you get a 1.9 sec 60' time with a T50?

[Willis]

I've daily driven a 20v 4age ae71 with 3.9, 4.1, 4.3 and 4.5:1 and I think 4.5 or 4.7 is the way to go.

 

It sits on 3600 at 100klm/hr in 5th with 195/50 r15 tyres. For a 20v that's about idle. Its fairly efficient at thos rpms anyhow. You see no real loss of economy. Plus the lower final drive makes all your taller gears useful once you really start driving the thing. What's good about it isn't that it gets off the line quick. It does, but if you hammer first then you're straight into second within 2 seconds. First gear just flies by. Its not that fun and its not an option for a down shift on a tight corner as its just too short. You will beat bigger more powerful cars to 60klm/hr 100% of the time with it, but its too short for any real driving. Theres also an art to getting it into second at high rpm with a t50 quickly.

 

Where the lower final drive really excels is in 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th gears. It pulls a lot better through these gears. I found the car was a slug with 3.9, the speed you needed to have power down even coming out of a corner in second was always just a few hundred rpm above where the power really comes on in the 20v, so you were always unable to power out nicely. You always had to wait to build some more rpm to really get it moving, and then it didn't accelerate as quickly.

 

If you want economy, are happy having a slightly blunt object as a daily drive, then use the 3.9. Just use the stock Borg warner up first as its about as safe a diff as you can have to get used to the car.

 

If you enjoy spirited driving, then go the shorter gearing. If you plan to drift it on the weekends

or do track work you will be lost without short gearing, especially since you have more rpm available than the smallport that was compared above.

 

and for the witzl,

 

I have had ae86 swaybar in a ke70 before, it was fine, but the adjustable didnt fit due to a clash with the brakes and a poor s link design. Thats a known issue with whiteline, but I can see that if there are any problems they will only be with brake clearance.

 

Some interesting little bits of info there, LittleRed. No doubt, I'll be tossing up gearing sooner or later so they might come in handy.

[KE7T]

GEEZ THANKS GUYS this forum to me is a wealth of information who better to ask than people who have " been there and done that " it will save me a lot of time and money experimenting anyway the 3.9 idea i have chucked and now leaning towards 4.1 / 4.3 / 4.5 . i don't want a locker diff but would like to know if the ae86 factory lsd will be fine and i have one more question are all 3 of these ratios still avaliable NEW from somewhere THANKS AGAIN ALL

[parrot]

You don't need a braided line from clutch master to slave. Grab a hardline from a rack fitted Toyota with slave on the right hand side.

 

When converting my AE86 to a 4AGE bellhousing, I used one from an RA60 from memory. Fitted perfectly. And as above, all the clutch actuating stuff just swaps over, other than the slave for which you use one for a T18 (TE72). Available at your brake and clutch place.

 

Factory LSD is fine for most spirited driving and will transform the car. Depends what you want to use it for. Remember however that most centres are nearly 30 years old, although you can get rebuild kits for them.

 

I don't understand all this 1.5 or 2 way stuff, but exxy fancy aftermarket LSD's are readily available if they suit your purpose.

[LittleRedSpirit]

1 way wont lock on decel, it free rolls like 2 stroke moto. For beginners, who can't rev match or are too lazy (daily).

 

1.5 way has some locking character on decel, but its not severe, gives some engine braking.

 

2 way is where its at. You can crash the car if you don't rev match cause it will compression lock hard on decel. Its only caught me out once or twice ever, once was I misread the surface as it was near roadworks and the dust meant less grip when I got off throttle after down shifting, so it initiated a slide for me, which I gladly corrected, the other time it just stepped out but I was able to control it. You just have to learn to heel toe to control it so when you get off the clutch your revs are approximately correct for your speed/gear. Its not as hard as it sounds, and its usually just done by flicking the gas with your heel while braking and clutching, then timing the release of the brake and clutch as you get on the gas. You can corner a lot faster with this technique anyhow so its worth learning.

 

Once you master the 2 way, you can do fun things like chuck it ass backwards into dirt road corners and just feed it the power to steer it out. :laff:

[Willis]

1 way wont lock on decel, it free rolls like 2 stroke moto. For beginners, who can't rev match or are too lazy (daily).

 

1.5 way has some locking character on decel, but its not severe, gives some engine braking.

 

2 way is where its at. You can crash the car if you don't rev match cause it will compression lock hard on decel. Its only caught me out once or twice ever, once was I misread the surface as it was near roadworks and the dust meant less grip when I got off throttle after down shifting, so it initiated a slide for me, which I gladly corrected, the other time it just stepped out but I was able to control it. You just have to learn to heel toe to control it so when you get off the clutch your revs are approximately correct for your speed/gear. Its not as hard as it sounds, and its usually just done by flicking the gas with your heel while braking and clutching, then timing the release of the brake and clutch as you get on the gas. You can corner a lot faster with this technique anyhow so its worth learning.

 

Once you master the 2 way, you can do fun things like chuck it ass backwards into dirt road corners and just feed it the power to steer it out. :laff:

 

Everytime I read a post from you, I learn something new.

I'd read about decel when I was a bit younger but had completely forgotten about it until reading that post^

I've got some thinking to do when the time comes for me to actually upgrade my diff and purchase an LSD.

[KE7T]

HEY whats the art of shifting T50 gears quickly ??????????

[Redwarf]

HEY whats the art of shifting T50 gears quickly ??????????

 

 

Talent.

[Evan G]

HEY whats the art of shifting T50 gears quickly ??????????

 

 

 

granny shifting not double clutching

Edited April 6, 2012 by Evan G