oldeskewltoy Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Sooooooooooo......... Let me tell you the story of Surreptitious.... a "lowly" E7 Corolla sport coupe.... 7th generation Toyota Corolla - http://i79.photobuck...7thgengroup.jpg Powered by one of those... 16V 4AGEs that uses mostly stock parts..... ..... and yet now plants about 30%-45% more power then a typical 16V...(145whp) while MAINTAINING over 30mpg on the highway :lovin: AND being emissions compliant!! :party: That uses a 6 speed from an Altezza/IS200, modified with a conversion kit from LEEN. Oh... and concerning suspension and braking... I've got that pretty well covered too... with a complete AE86 suspension and 4 wheel disc brakes. More to come.... :D 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldeskewltoy Posted November 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) This car build actually began as an engine build... back in 2008. I was determined that a 16V 4AGE could plant similar power as a 20V, given similar circumstances (compression, cam duration and lift, and engine management), while maintaining local emissions compliance. I began my build with a few essential bits of information.... 1) the smallport 4AGE head was superior to a largeport head, 2) a 7 rib block was much stouter then a 3 rib block, 3) The "feel" of the earlier engine(3 rib equipped) was snappier. 1) "Smallport", "largeport"... 2 different port configurations for the 4AGE 4 cylinder... the top 2 views show largeport, the bottom view is a smallport. The smallport head provided similar peak lift flow (volume), while improving on port velocity. 2) 3 rib block is upside down. The red marks in the 7 rib block show all the either added, or increased strengthening done to better carry a high rpm rotational assembly So... If the block is stronger, and the head is better on the newer engines... why did everyone report that the earlier engines felt snappier??? It all has to do with MASS The earlier 3 rib engines used different cranks and rods... MUCH lighter crank(a kilo :wtf:) and..... MUCH lighter rods (nearly 3 ounces lighter per rod :bounce: ) Oh... some of you might be asking yourself... "Why did Toyota add a kilo to the crank, and 3 ounces to each rod?".... the answer is because Toyota introduced the 4AGZE and they overbuilt the bottom end to cope with any issues the supercharged engine(4AGZE) might develop. Are the wheels turning yet in your mind??? What would happen if I mixed the 2 engines?? Use the superior designed head and block, along with the lightest OEM internals. Now a small There is SOME confusion about what an original TVIS 4AGE actually is... and the original power output. In reality ONLY Singapore, and some none emissions areas in Europe actually got TVIS 4AGE engines... the rest of the world all got TVIS 4AGEC engines. The "C" = catalyst equipped, which meant 9.4 to 1 compression ratio. Singapore, and those non emissions sections of Europe, got no cats, and got 10 to 1 pistons. (TVIS = Toyota Variable Intake System - a set of butterflies in the intake tract to add or subtract air - a method of increasing the intake air velocity) (all numbers measured @ the crank) 4AGEC engines 112hp to 115hp depending on application(transverse, or longitudinal), and management (AFM or MAP based) 4AGE engine 125hp now over..... Why that little tid bit of 4AGE info??? Because along with lighter weight, the earlier rods have smaller big and small ends then their heavier siblings. This requires finding an appropriate piston... one that raises compression with no downside about its crown (almost all aftermarket "on the shelf" 4AGE pistons are total garbage... they are designed for big valves, and as such usually have too steeply raked a crown) Sooooo.... along with the newer head and block, and the older crank and rods... I had to find myself a set of TVIS 4AGE (no "C") pistons.... Next..... crank and rods..... before I go too far, I'll be using "smaller", or "little" these terms refer to the crankshaft rod journals. The earlier crankshaft has 40mm rod journals, while the later, or newer crankshaft used 42mm rod journals. Below are the 2 crankshafts offered by Toyota for the 4AG. The top one is the lighter one(available from 1983 to mid 1987). Note in the bottom one(yellow lines) the larger counter weight on #2 and #4 mains, this is where much of that extra kilo is..... To quickly answer your questions...... yes the bottom crank is stronger.... but "stronger" is relative, the top (smaller) crank once properly finished is more than adequate enough for rpms levels upto 8500. The larger crank is capable of rpm levels around 9500. An interesting little factoid... the famous TRD crank... capable of rpm levels exceeding 14,000 rpm.... is another kilo HEAVIER then even the heavy OEM crank!!! And they can break too :argh: I said, "once properly finished"..... like this one. The crank below has been balanced and hardened, it also has had all the journals micro-polished. Now to the rods... 4AG rods... there were 4 kinds from Toyota... only the one on the far left fits the smaller (40mm rod journal) crank... That rod has a mass of about 459 grams, the rod just to the right weighs about 526 grams... there is 67 grams less mass in the "little" rod. That is per rod... :wtf: When the rods get the same treatment that the crank got.... they end up a bit under 455 grams... and stronger. Now... add in a wrist pin that is another 23 grams lighter still... (non OEM)... and you now have a recipe for very light 4AGE engine internals both rotation-ally... AND more importantly from a reciprocating POV. The easier it is to start, stop, and start again (rod and piston in motion) the quicker the throttle, and the easier all the parts survive. So... that is the bottom end.... not a lot special down here... and only one special, or extra part... a light weight wrist pin..... Next post I'll look at the head....... :popcorn: Edited November 6, 2014 by oldeskewltoy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Nice! Love to see the 4AGE knowledge gathered in one place and carefully arranged clearly. Its always fascinating how manufacturers change things in a production run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Lugg Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Sweet read - thanks for the time and effort put in to that. Nice! Love to see the 4AGE knowledge gathered in one place and carefully arranged clearly. +1 Edited November 7, 2014 by B-Lugg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.L.Z.BUB Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Screw ae86's gimme a TE71 coupe any day. Nice write up too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalaws Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 thanks for posting this - really great to have such clear and concise breakdown, I learnt heaps from that and will probably refer to it a lot for my eventual build :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldeskewltoy Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 thats only the first posts..... I've got a LOT more coming..... ;) Before I go on to the cylinder head... I have to introduce you to one of my friends.... Meet Arnie Loyning - founder and owner of http://loyningsengineservice.com/ Loynings Engine Service has built some of the most powerful engines, for some of the fastest cars. Loynings has built engines that have won 27 National SCCA championships. A few (engine types) you might be familiar with: they have built 4AG Atlantics that exceed 270hp, and they have built a destroked (3.5 liter) 1GR that exceeds 420hp - NOT boosted :bounce: All the machine work on my 4AGE was performed by Loynings :rocknroll: so... lets move on to the head.... As stated I decided to use a smallport 4AGE cylinder head... but with a few modifications.... The first thing done on this head was to de-shroud the combustion chamber. De-shrouding is the process where you remove all the factory machining marks, and casting flaws from the chambers. This task was performed by me.... :wave: Chambers #1 and #2... top is before, bottom is after.... Chambers #3 and #4 before and after.... all four chambers finished The rest of the headwork was performed by Loynings Engine Service (http://loyningsengineservice.com/).... a multi-angle valve job was performed, along with a full radius back cut on the stock Toyota valves. intake bowl/seat - exhaust bowl/seat - intake port - exhaust port - The head was also machined to reduce chamber volume from 37cc (volume after de-shrouding) down to 33cc The machining of the head, in conjunction with the 10 to 1 piston raises compression to a moderate 10.75 to 1. Although no where near the cost of a typical Atlantic engine ($10k to $15k), my engine does carry a Loynings serial number just like the Atlantics do As the machine work was being finished @ Loynings I was looking for a very unique way of showing off my unique jewel of an engine... I decided on a set of custom laser engraved cam covers... With the head machine work finished, assembly of the valvetrain followed. The only non stock part in the valve train is a set of TRD valve springs. I went with the TRD because I was going to be running a cam with more lift then the stock springs could cope with. Also a much higher ramp rate was going to be used. Stock 4AG springs tend to bind at or very close to 8mm of valve lift. My new cams were going to have a lift of 8.38mm and much higher ramp rates, so new springs were going to be needed. Just to keep track there are now 2 types of parts in my engine that are not stock... valve springs, and wrist pins. A brief note here... the smallport 4AGE only was available in fwd configuration. This meant the manifold would be facing the wrong direction if left un modified. A simple "surgical" procedure was done to cut the plenum chamber from the runners, flip it around and then welded back together. This modification provided me with a few benefits besides the pleum opening facing the correct way, the flip also flipped all the manifold openings, and access points to the outside, instead of the inside. This allowed for easy access when it came to setting up the engine later on The head and block come together using a stock head gasket, and all new oil and water pumps As I alluded too above, the new valve springs were purchased because I purchased new camshafts. Web Camshafts 577 grind. The 577 is similar to most other companies "264" type camshafts when measuring the effective duration(@ .050" lift), but because they were designed with an accelerated ramp, their total duration is actually smaller then most other companies "256" type camshafts. Below are the new* Web 577s, along with a small collection of valve clearance adjustment shims, cam lube, caliper, feeler gauge, dental pick and SS Works* Adjustable timing pulleys. * - you can tell they are new because the lobes are not shiney... the lobes are coated with a friction modifier to help in camshaft break-in small Although those SS Works pulleys look sexy, they could not be used.... they were not manufactured to properly fit the cams I decided to use... Their pin drive hole was a VERY POOR fit.... as much as 4 degress of "slop" I ended up using T3 timing pulleys... which also had 2 errors... but both I could compensate for... error 1, pin drive hole was too small (I opened hole up for a perfect no slop fit), error 2 is they placed one of their drive holes in the wrong place requiring special instructions for their use thread jack now over we resume regular programming :hammer: Below are the tools required to find TRUE, ACCURATE TDC (Top Dead Center) A 360 degree timing wheel (with 1/2 degree markings), a piston stop, a timing pointer. timing pointer is visible pointing @184 1/2 degrees Once the timing wheel is fixed to the front of the crankshaft, the piston stop is threaded down #1 spark plug hole. The engine is rotated first one direction... till it stops because it contacts the piston stop, using a pencil mark the timing wheel. Then rotated the opposite direction until it stops, again mark the wheel. Count the number of hash marks between the 2 pencil marks and divide by 2... THAT is TDC. Once TDC is known.... we can begin cam timing. The new camshafts are installed, and the tools measuring valve opening are installed A dial indicator on a lockable adjustable mount along with a wire are the tools required. The wire is shaped to reach around the camshaft lobe and measure the valves movement directly from the shim/bucket assembly. Note you can see the friction coating gradually being wiped away. With all the tools in place timing is set to the specifications listed in the Timing card I posted above..... The finished engine awaiting installation... The final engine specifications: 1606cc: 81.5mm bore, 77mm stroke. Comp Ratio 10.75 to 1. All engine internals are stock with the exception of the wrist pins, valve springs and camshafts. More to come....... :D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snot35 Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Well, technically the head isn't stock ;) But keep it up, I'm enjoying the build! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldeskewltoy Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Well, technically the head isn't stock ;) But keep it up, I'm enjoying the build! :) stock valves.... stock seats.... but yeah... maybe not stock in the strictest terms.... :evil: A bit of back tracking is needed here... at the time I began the engine build I was driving my nearly flawless 1987 Corolla GT-S coupe (also with a few mods... but thats another build story :hammer: ) This car had a modest 112whp (about 130hp @ the crank), and although running numerous mods, it was in essence still mostly stock, running on stock engine management. I had just finished building a 4AGE that was going to need more then stock 4AGE engine management. I had to decide to either seriously modify my very clean AE86... or sell her to help finance the new car.... I sold her in 2009 :( Prior to selling her, I did manage to find the chassis for the new engine.... a pretty rare 1983 Corolla Sport Coupe.... sans engine... :paperbag: Here are a few more pics of her prior to work.... I began to strip her... and when I got to this point\/.... all the bells and whistles in my head began to go off.... I began to see what I wanted... I positioned in a set of vintage Hella Dynamic Energy DE2000 driving lamps* ... and an oil cooler * - http://i79.photobuck...ellaDElamps.jpg - The DE2000 eventually lead to the BMW projector head lamps Neat... clean... all it needs is a little something.... :popcorn: As with many other car builders, inspiration comes from odd places.... I had decided on the AE71 Corolla for a few reasons.... 1) it is the predecessor to the AE86 so most of the AE86 aftermarket could be utilized 2) There are not many (more now... less back in 2009) thoughtfully modified 7th generation Corollas out there 3) I wanted to turn a "wallflower into a head turner" and by utilizing the AE71 I could use my knowledge base (Toyota) to its best. Neat... clean... all it needs is a little something.... :popcorn: that something came to me as I was trolling the internet.... and found this... A European drift car... clean' date=' and although a smaller bumper... [img']http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/oldeskewltoy/ae71/euroAE71fohacoupe.jpg[/img] it is still :yak: BUT... what I spy is a little bit of period correct performance body work....... a FOHA spoiler :bounce: FOHA is an Austrian company that was renowned in its day for making tasteful, and useful aero aids. I begin a search... and a Corolla enthusiast from the Philippines tells me he can make me a copy of the FOHA.... I commission the work... the product arrives about 5 weeks later.... When it comes to body work... I know all the process, and many of the tools... but body work is a total black art to me... quite a few people tell me my porting work is a black art... and to them it might be... but to me... the black art is being able to visualize another persons visualizations... and bring them to life..... Such a person is another one of my friends.... his name is David... (I'll show you his pic in a little bit....) I found David by looking through Craigslist in Portland. He had an advert up about body work... along with an email to David, I sent 5 more to other body shop, hotrod posters. Of the 6 emails... 5 got back in touch... My car... "sans engine" was not going to see them, so they came here... well 4 of the 5 did. David was the only one I connected with... who didn't want $8k+ :owned: David explained what he would do, listened to me when I told him that I wanted a clean - light - look.... We discussed the costs... The fender mirror holes, the antenna hole were all closed, along with the trim holes along the edge of the hood. David builds perches for the fog lamps... note the now broken 30 year old vintage driving lamp :rant: I can laugh about the broken fog lamp now... but back then.... where was I going to find a replacement??? Where else... the Netherlands.... huh.... wtf... the NETHERLANDS??? I'm a member of MANY forums... one of the AE86 forums I belong to is based in Europe... long story short... with my friends (gee more friends... :party: ) help I was able to find a set on sale in a Dutch sales forum.... I know have a spare :dance: So with the body getting ready for paint, David suggest Lexus Diamond White Pearl(051)... the idea... keep the car white... but jazz it up with a nice 21st century paint.... Next came the first truly custom part... from my imagination.... to reality... a shaped tube bumper.... part structure, part protection, part pure imagination :thumbsup: Early on when I was trying to figure out the front bumper... another friend... Jesse, suggested I begin the bumper by using the original bumpers mounts... so we drilled out the spot welds and dropped about 30#s from the very front of the car :thumbsup: They are being used to mount the new tube bumper Then we went to fitting the FOHA.... ...and once the FOHA was painted... and the raw bumper... ... a bit more assembled... but still without an engine The idea... as I saw it... was to carry the lines of the headlamps down to the bumper by ending the bumper under the outer edge of each headlamp... with the fog lamps peaking from their secluded location... I think we did a good job........ :D More to come...... :D Edited November 8, 2014 by oldeskewltoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldeskewltoy Posted November 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure if you noticed.... in all of the body work shots there is something missing... there is no wiring! Early on I had decided that 30 year old wiring... relays... and previous owners... was too much. I removed almost all of the original wiring... 99%... the other 1% was the tail lamp pigtails, and the connectors to the instrument cluster. I replaced the harness with a 20 Mini circuit harness kit from EZ Wiring... half the cost of Painless But that doesn't account for the engines wiring..... :hammer: Have I told you that I'm not typically a patient person :bash: So let me introduce to you another friend.... not sure he thinks so... but Mark is very good when it comes to wiring.... Above he is beginning to work with the engine management wiring, you can see the ECU on the right foreground. Below he is beginning to mount the EZ harness and as if you didn't notice in the first pic of this post... and the most recent pic... the dashboard is not in the car.... It too is being gone over, this time by me, to make sure that 30 years of use have been cleaned and re-sealed where needed At this point there is a lot happening. Mark is wiring the chassis with the engine, and transmission out of the car... but once the chassis is moderately wired the engine needs to go in so he can run the management wiring. There is other work happening too.... additional custom work Custom #4(#1 is the bumper, 2 and 3 are the new wiring) Here is a before and after photo of the front end.... What is missing, that is NEEDED?? more to come... :D Edited November 10, 2014 by oldeskewltoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldeskewltoy Posted November 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Here is a before and after photo of the front end.... What is missing, that is NEEDED?? Anybody???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldeskewltoy Posted November 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 What is missing' date=' that is NEEDED?? [img']http://yoursmiles.org/msmile/sad/m1516.gif[/img] In the top view there are 2 sets of amber lamps.... in the lower view only one. Toyota, in their infinite wisdom made the upper lamps, just outboard of the headlamps, into the parking lamps, and they buried the turn signals under the bumper. To be able to use my new front end, I needed to make the parking lamps pull double duty so they could be both parking... and directional signals. There isn't a lot of room for a 2nd bulb... Having found a place on the back side to add a lamp I first try an LED. A single LED is just not bright enough, so off to find something brighter.... something with at least a few watts... The only problem with the above bulb and mount was it was the only one I had..... .... so asking my friends over at www.hachiroku.net if anyone had any other lamps, the board owner "Delphi" aka Kenny, said that there were a pair of those used to light the wiper and headlamp switches on the AE86.... and sure enough he was right :yes: fitted... already cut away to provide pigtails... Now the wiring is sealed inside premium shrink tube (w/glue inside!) And the finished results........ The micro bulb is my parking lamps, the 194 bulb is now the directional signal Not only have I found a way for the parking lamps to pull double duty... I've also increased the safety by now having my directional signals view-able from the side... as well as the front! Safer and improved looks at the same time.... :wootjump: In the next post I'll discuss the use of this...... :wtf: More to come.... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well, I had to sign in just to say I'm loving the build! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldeskewltoy Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Well, I had to sign in just to say I'm loving the build! thanks.... it still isn't finished.... but the end is in view.... In the next post I'll discuss the use of this...... :wtf: Any ideas why I bought a cutting board??? I won't make you guess.... remember... I decided to completely rewire the car.... many of the fuse boxes, or relay mounts are designed to fit odd areas/recesses, the cutting board fits a need..... what a wonderful product... once shaped correctly to fit a place it works fantastic as a electric mounting surface... non conductive... easy to drill/and add screws... and it works.... and as the new harness is wired into the car.... There is other work happening too.... additional custom work Custom #4(#1 is the bumper' date=' 2 and 3 are the new wiring)[/quote'] custom #5.... it has been in this thread already... and no one saw it. (assumption) Anyone see it??? Still no??? The E7 chassis cars, when equipped with a tach dash, has an 8000 rpm tach with a redline @ 6000. Look again... my dash now has a 9000 rpm tach.... :bounce: With a 4AGE engine capable of rpm levels ABOVE the 8000 rpm tach I had to do something so I could adequately monitor rpm. A member of Club4AG was swapping in FX-16 9000 rpm tachs into AE86s... so I disassembled both my cluster and an FX-16 cluster and I managed to fit the FX16 tachometer into the AE71 cluster. The speedometer is another issue. Back in the olden days... the USA government pressed for reduced speeds. Part of this was a silly thing in the speedometer... limiting them to 85mph I did some experiments into fitting the FX-16 speedometer, but it, being mechanical, couldn't be modified(with my capabilities) to fit in the E7 dash... BUT.... there is an option.... this option...... comes from Europe... Europe didn't have such foolishness as an 85 mph speedo... they have 190+ kph (120 mph) kouki, or 210kph (130.5mph) zenki speedometers... kouki type zenki type for now I retain the 85 mph speedometer.... BUT.... thanks to another friend who works all over Europe, and the Mid East... I have the zenki cluster.... 210kph = 130.5mph. Still not enough for the true top speed of my car... but a LOT closer than the USA spec 85mph(140kph) speedo can show More to come...... :D Edited November 12, 2014 by oldeskewltoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldeskewltoy Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Hmmmm, have you yet enjoyed the trials and tribulations of Yahoo Japan? I've let you in on my excursions to Europe to find replacements for the Hella driving lamps, and to get the zenki cluster, now let me share the story of the wheel search for Surreptitious......... :popcorn: The wheel search begins in the winter 2008/2009. I have a friend.... (yep... another one, this one is named Jack aka "towat168") He told me that he had an account on YJ and that he bought and sold items from there often..... still does. The first set of wheels I found that I REALLY wanted.... I was outbid for.... SSR Air Stages... a staggered set no less :thumbsup:.... 15x7 +15, and 15 x 7.5 zero The bidding began @ 5000 yen... and my budget including freight was only $700 total... so @ 30000 yen I stopped. A side note... the EXACT SAME SET came up for sale @ one of the famous wheel sale sites... they were asking $1200 :lmao: I felt like crap.... but in the end... they weren't to be.... keeping up on the search I came across 2 other sets of wheels I bid on that I was also out bid for.... making 3 failed attempts.... Air Stagess.\/................ TOM'S 15x7" +15 \/ .................. Linea finned 15 x 6.5" +20 \/ The Linea wheels got me thinking a matched wheel and car combo might look very nice.... and then a set of 5 spoke wheels came up in my search.... Trakyoto Drag 902 5 spoke wheels are a staple of the muscle/pony car era.... and although not staggered, this set was well sized for Surreptitious 15 x 6.5 +22... they are also only 15#s each ... and cost a total.... including freight and fees.... of $540.00 :rock: The fact that they looked like classic muscle/pony car wheels like the Ronal R9... or the American Racing "Daytona" was just icing on the cake :thumbsup: More to come..... :D Edited November 12, 2014 by oldeskewltoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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