4k/5k head (Thermostat housing compatibility)

[Thomas Dillon]

You fellas have got an answer for everything! Ahaha, 

I didn’t even think of that, did you drill with a press or just a hand drill? 
 

You ever had any issues with it leaking? I suppose a bitta thread tape would do the trick ay 

[Banjo]

Drill press is always the best. Centre punch, small drill then work your way up, with larger drills, until it's the right size for the tap, for your particular fan switch.  Many of those brass switches & temp sensors, have a tapered thread.   Never ever leaks !  That's why they are tapered, so they basically "jam tight", as You screw them in.

Cheers Banjo

Edited Wednesday at 11:51 AM by Banjo

[altezzaclub]

"What do we think about a beams 3sge swap? "

Its been done plenty of times, but the Beams is a very tall motor so either a lot of work to get it low, or a hole in the bonnet. I'm working on putting one in an AE86 Sprinter for a guy right now, a gravel rally car, and it has a Kiwi-made shallow sump and custom mounts. A pair of brothers who rally a KE70 used the earlier Gen 4 version for exactly this reason.

Anyway, that's a long way down the track, you can make that 5K go fast enough to get into trouble!

If you're screwing a tapered brass fitting into an aluminium housing use some sealant and only go just above hand-tight. Those t'stat housing are fairly thin to start with and often corroded even thinner. I pulled the thread out of a 4AGE one and found it was made of unobtanium, but luckily could extend the thread further in.

[Banjo]

Hi Thomas,

                   Have You ever watched this guy on utube, regarding his assessment of all Toyota engines. He has a few videos, & is widely followed.

Toyota Engine Assessmets 

In one He talks about the incredible reliability of the 1NZ-FE & 2NZ-FE engines, fitted to Yaris, Echos, & Corollas.  I once looked at the possibility of the 1NZ-FE  transplant to a KE series Corolla, after I purchased an Echo, for my daughter.  The big problem, is it is an east/west engine, & needs some serious mods to fabricate mounting points.  The other problem, is the inability to mate an inline gearbox & clutch, to the 1NZ-FE, without an adaptor; which I don't think still does not exist.  

I did a couple of Google searches, & strangely came across a thread on RollaClub, back in 2017, where a number of us; weighed in on this subject.  I'd forgotten, all about it.

You might like to have a read, at this link.

https://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/73681-cheap-4ks-maybe-not-anymore/#comment-712069

Cheers Banjo 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:54 PM by Banjo

[Thomas Dillon]

To be honest, I’ve only ever had starlets with k series motors in them and when I look back I wouldn’t have changed anything ay. They’re an epic package, simple, and a heap of fun as is with some noisy/peppy upgrades. 
 

At the moment I just wanna turn the key and have a tidy example starly with a few good supporting mods/updated tech where necessary. Take it hooning and keep things simple…famous last words hahah

I’ll look into that YouTube channel, I’ve also got a donor 4 door flat front shell that has some rear roof corner rust that needs addressing but it’d make a good track/event platform someday. 
 

also re the thermostat top housing, I found one… a factory RHS shooting outlet with a facto sensor tapped in. 
 

will update with pics when it arrives from chch. 
 

also a little unrelated, I’ve got the motor on the stand (no oil in it). It’s got a new filter on etc and is waiting to go back in the car basically in a couple months. Should I dump the oil in and give it a wind over each week? I was gonna send some down the spark tubes but being dished pistos I wouldn’t reach the walls without dumping a good 100ml in hahah

[altezzaclub]

I'd get some CRC 556, WD40 or Q20, whatever and squirt some in with the extension tube on the valve. If you spray the far wall it will run around the rings and coat the cylinder walls as you turn it over. Only needs it once every few months. The 90% kero spreads the oils around and then slowly evaporates, and it will burn out when you start the motor.

 

[Banjo]

I've always used light sewing machine oil, like you get in those little household size tins. Like Altezzaclub says . . . spray it down towards the sides of the walls of the cylinders, so it get into the ring gaps etc. The real danger with old engines sitting around, is when the spark plugs are removed permanently for storage. Screw them back in.  Plug exhaust & inlet manifold with wrag to stop air entering there, as there will always be some valves open, allowing outside moist air into the cylinder proper.

If the head has been removed, smear grease into cylinder walls, & around the top edge of each piston.  They can store sucessfully for years like that, as it prevents "moist air" acting on the cylinder walls.

Cheers Banjo

[Thomas Dillon]

bloody magic, I’ll get onto that tomorrow. Fingers crossed it should be laid to rest on the subframe and back in the bay in 6 weeks ish for a run up. 
 

this arvo I hit another wee bump in the road. I hadn’t really noticed it when dropping the oil pre pulling the motor as I bought the car a few weeks prior… A combination of an uneven sump-to-plug surface & a couple dicey threads led to a leaky plug this arvo when filling with penrite.  

Option 1: We rip the sump off again and have a new female fitting welded on and plug fitted. Will have to get a new seal and razor the gasket maker off. Bloody faffs.
 

Option 2: I try and find an 18m ID rubber flat washer that can deal with oil and high temp and try that first. The plug does tighten well in the sump threads, just feels a little wobbly on the way in but I’m guessing that’s to be expected with a 1.5mm thread pitch? Sump plug size is 18x1.5 

Not the end of the world and if welding a new fitting in has to be the way forward we’ll come out the other side better for it.  Just a bloooody faff

[altezzaclub]

Do it now! Otherwise the motor will run like a dream for years and leave oil patches every time you park!

Does it still have the 4 studs under the crank pulley? Replace those with bolts, in case you ever want to remove the sump in the car...say, because you didn't fix the plug thread now and you're tired of oil leaks!  Its difficult but not impossible to get the sump off without pulling the motor out, but only if those studs are gone.

Only you can know if there is enough thread strength to hold the plug in, but it should take 15ft.lbs I'd say, a solid but not hard tighten with one hand on a ring-open spanner.

[Banjo]

Hi Thomas,

                    These are the studs, Altezzaclub, is referring to.

     

Went through this ordeal recently on a 5K, in situ. Had to back two nuts onto each other; to be able to extract the 4 off studs from the engine, in a cramped & crowded position, before I could remove the camshaft sprocket front cover. Pain of a job, & impossibe, with the studs remaining in place. I replaced the studs with bolts, in case it has to come off again.

P.S.   Notice how the engine TDC timing marks on the 5K camshaft sprocket cover, are in a different position, to those on the 3K & 4K engines.  A trap for those mixing & matching parts on K Series motors.  I got caught years ago !

There are quite a few second hand parts for K Series engines, available on ebay. I came across the following one this morning, which has to be the smallest 5K engine Toyota ever produced, at 1.5cc capacity.

Cheers Banjo

Edited 16 hours ago by Banjo

[Thomas Dillon]

Ahahaha, shit thats a big 5k! 
 

well fellas, sump is off, I’ll be on my third sump seal if I can’t get the goop off but that’s okay! 
 

Upon taking the sump off I noticed we’ve got a 4k crank… 4k timing cover & dished pistos so all fingers are pointing towards 4K-u correct? 
 

Do all k series run a 4k crank? I think I may have read this elsewhere or would they be stamped 2k,3k,4k etc? 
 

I’ll also whip those studs out shortly and get some new bolts from blacks. 
 

also see attached the photo of the sump where there’s a gap in the threads.. I’m guessing to allow oil to flow out of the lowest point. Somewhere along the line the sump steel has been pushed up into this gap. 
 

I’ve been looking at Aeroflow fittings and the plan is to loose the entire old bung set up and weld the new one on the exterior flush so we get a good flow out when doing oil changes 

thats all for now, touch base soon. 
 

cheers fellas 

[Banjo]

Interesting !   I don't think I've ever seen that previously ?  Have to go & have a look at a sump, in the shed, that's not bolted to a engine.

I'd be taking that oil pump off & dismantling it, & having a good look/inspection inside.

I actually have a 4K-U engine in my daily KE-30 2 door drive. If You look at the Toyota K Series engine "yellow" bible; the power out of the 4K-U, is considerably more than the standard 4K-C; & not too much less, than a 5K.

Have fun !

Cheers Banjo

 

[Thomas Dillon]

 that’s interesting, I just had a wee google and the power numbers are pretty close between the 4ku & 5k ay. Surprising, 

Makes me wonder why the previous owner choose to go with a 5k head, unless it was skimmed it would’ve dropped compression. 

Also unsure if it’s got a mild cam in it. Such an unknown motor ahaha. We’ll get some answers once it’s completely stripped down. 
 

whipped the base off the oil pump. From a first glance the spout and pump mating surfaces look in good order. Those wear marks you can see don’t catch a fingernail at all. 
 

would there be any need to remove the upper housing beyond the pump? 

[Banjo]

Found this sump in my garage, not bolted to an engine.  There appears to be a couple of sizes of sump drain nuts used by Toyota in those days.   This one used a 14mm spanner, but I've got others that use a 12mm spanner.  

As in Thomas' photo, the threaded section, to accept the sump plug, is threaded up inside, the sump; resulting in the last bit of oil being retained in the sump, when draining it.   I can see why someone; would create that little hole, in the threaded section; to drain the very last bit of "olde" oil out.

Probably a better way, would be to carefully grind/file/cut out that threaded tube, & weld a new threaded section, to the outside of the sump.  These threaded sections with threaded plug, are commonly available, in different sizes; at places like EFI here on the Gold Coast, in Qld.  However, some may look at that picture & say; hold on, that plug is on the side of the sump; & not the bottom. Remember, the K series motors are installed; tilted to one side; so that sump drain point, is the lowest point on the sump, when installed in the engine bay.

However, what caught my eye on this 5K sump, that I acquired some years ago, from a guy in Gympie, who had it in a dirt circular track midget speed car; was this other fitting on the side of the sump.  It has an electrical fitting, with two pins.  My first thought was maybe Toyota put some sort of heater in the sump, for models exported to very cold countries.  However, the plug contacts were too small, to handle a large amount of current, so my next best guess; was that it was some sort of oil level monitor.  There was a baffle inside the sump, directly above it, so I could not clearly see what it was.  So out with the 4 off 8mm bolts; & a low oil level alarm contact device appeared.

It appears the black rectangular piece of "plastic/bakelite" type of material, on the LHS of the picture above "floats up", & the circuit is "open circuit."  It's travel is only 5-6mm, but when it drops to the bottom, the circuit is closed, & presumably lit a warning light on the dash. I did not clean this switch up, but it still works perfectly, as I put the multimeter across it, measuring ohms.  This is not some aftermarket part, as the sump has a factory original flange for mounting it, & it looks like extra baffles around it, to keep the oil around it, from "sloushing" around. I dare say, it would not be used in the midget racing car; as there, the oil spends most it's time half way up the side of the sump, facing the outside of the track.

So there is always something to learn; & K Series engines, are still revealing their magic !

Cheers Banjo

Edited 8 hours ago by Banjo

[Banjo]

Quote

would there be any need to remove the upper housing beyond the pump? 

When engines are "this olde", I always strip every down to clean & inspect. Particular in the sump area, as it is a place, that You rarely get to inspect, whilst the engine is in the engine bay. Oil sludge build up on passage ways etc, is also a good reason to clean everything thoroughly, before reassembly.

Cheers Banjo

Edited 4 hours ago by Banjo