Davros El Davros

00 - INTRO: Ok, before this begins, I understand that there is an absolute shite-load of information out there on the good old 4AGE engine conversion and RWD setup for FWD drive cars, so this is not intending to re-invent the wheel so to speak. This is going to be a documentation of the process we are about to undertake to put a 100kw 4AGE and a T50 5 speed box into my KE10. In the last few months I have been doing a tonne of reading and research into the conversion, and have compiled a fair amount of info. I have found many how-to guides that have been absolutely invaluable, but have had trouble finding something specific to a KE10, other than some really old posts on Toymods and some random pictures floating around the net. I have done my research and am about to undertake the project, so i thought I would document the job from start to finish, so it may make some things easier for other people. At the same time, it will be an open invite for people to make comments, suggestions or advice for things I may not have worked out...... I plan on updating this as I make progress on the project - Ill try my best to keep the crap to a minimum and not waffle on too much... 01 - STARTING POINT: So, this is what I have got at the moment: Its an awesome little 1967 KE10 coupe, with a mild 5k, extractors, 5 speed box, single downdraft Aisan carb and good old 12" steelies with original hubcaps and dress rims, and whitewall tires of course. Interior is fully custom trim, headliner and carpet, and it has a custom steel dash and VDO cockpit guages, momo wheel and gearshift knob. Stereo is fairly pissweak and can hardly be heard when the car is going fast anyway... I have had this car for just over a year - I bought it in pretty much the condition that is in now, except it was running like an absolute dog. Me and my old man have done a heap of mechanical work and the car now runs pretty well - its a bit grumpy on idle when the engine is cold, but other than that it's a great little weapon. So, why fix what ain't broke? And the die hard old school corolla fans will be screaming at me to get twin webbers, head porting and polishing and a Tighe cam, instead of messing with the 4AGE.....! Well, this car was purchased to be a daily driver, while I am restoring my true love - a 1968 Valiant VC regal (see I have been a valiant freak for most of my life...). Originally I bought the KE10 cause it was a hot little car with classic styling, and never intended to do much with it. As time has gone on I really dig this car and want to get it up to scratch so it can drive long distances, be smoother and more responsive, and have more capability to make power out of the engine if needed down the track. And being a p-plater, I needed to go with something that was naturally aspirated and of course fitted in the RTA rules and regulations for the modification of light production vehicles. (more on this later...) And seeing how damn tough the toyota engines are, I decided to go with the good old 4AGE...plus I thought it would be nice to be able to blow off commodore booners and my old man's charger.....

For my KE10 I just bought new 12" tyres from my local tyre place, then after wearing them in for a few months, I got the whitewalls engraved on the tyres. I am down south of Sydney, and the guy came to my house and did the whole lot for $100. He said that you need to wait a few months after the tyres are brand new, as they have certain oils to preserve them that can disolour the whitewall paint when it is applied. So that would be your best bet - buy decent tyres for the car then find someone who does whitewall engraving... Cheers Davros

Yeah thats a pretty tidy little unit - ditto on the flouro green paint - a bit frooty for my liking. Is the dash that is in it a stock dash? ie the metal dash with the plastic section for the gauges? Just wondering, casue my KE10 has a similar dash, but has a custom VDO guage cluster installed instead of the original guages.

Yeah the Midel guys are the one to talk to. From memory, I think a fairly comprehensive rebuilt kit including gear fro re-bushing the throttles shafts should cost you around $85 FYI: THere is also a pretty good book on rebuilding and custom tuning Su Carbs - I have the book at home so Ill post the title up for you.

Thanks guys, confusion cleared. :dance: Ill go ahead with the T50 box as planned. I post some updates and pics once work commences. Thanks Davros

Thanks for the feedback guys - very helpful. Medicine Man- thanks for the info. For the record, I have been doing a tonne of reading up on the conversion - I have deliberately tried to avoid posting obvious and stupid questions that will ensure me getting shot down in a hail of bullets, which is often justified for people who are out to leech information without doing their homework, but at times can be harsh on people who have had trouble finding something specific or are trying to clarify something. I have printed out a heap of info on the different gearboxes that can be used for a 4AGE conversion, but some of it is conflicting compared to other info out there. My post yesterday was in response to this section from Russell Turney's page located at: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/8422/4age.htm Begin Quote: There are two RWD 5 speed gearboxes that will fit any 4AGE. These are called the K-50 and T-50. There are also 4 speed versions of the same gearboxes called the K-40 and T-40 fitted to other Toyotas, however these are rare. The 4 and 5 speed gearboxes are externally identical. Apparently the K-40 is only fitted to K series engines, whilst the T-40 is almost non-existent, however I managed to find one in a 2TG fitted Corolla. Check the number of gear lever positions - 5 or 6 (i.e. don't forget reverse!). The K-50 has an integral bellhousing, utilises a cable clutch, and comprises two main alloy sections - front casting with bellhousing, and tail housing. There is also a pressed steel plate that bolts to the bottom of the front section. The T-50 has a separate bellhousing, uses a hydraulic clutch and comprises 4 main alloy castings - bellhousing, two diagonally split front gear casings, and a tail housing. This gearbox is often referred to as the 'split case' alloy 5 speed, and weighs 29 kg. The K-50 is normally found behind 3A 1500 cc SOHC engines fitted to KE 70 series Corollas and AE 85 Corollas etc. The T-50/4A compatible bellhousing is fitted only to the RWD 4AGE and some 3A engines. The T-50 bellhousing has letters cast into the top section between the uppermost bellhousing to engine block bolt bosses that identify the engine it came from - 3A or 4AG etc. In either case ensure you get the corresponding bell housing front cover plate (that bolts to the back of the block ahead of the flywheel), and the 2 cast stays that bolt between the bottom of the block and the lower portion of the bellhousing. Apparently the rear crankshaft bearings can flog out if these are omitted. End Quote So, as you know from my first post I have a KE10 with a 5k and a 5 speed box. I haven't put this engine and box in myself, so I have little idea of what has been done to the engine or what kind of box is in there. I have been reading up on trying to identify the box, and just out of interest was wondering if it would fit to the engine I am putting in - obviously it won't, but I wanted to make sure. As mentioned in my first post I am currently sourcing a T50 box for the engine, which I will use with a 3A or 4A bellhousing. I wasnt sure if the K50 from a k-series engine would be the same as a K50 from the KE 70 series Corollas and AE 85 Corollas. Davros

Hey all, I am trying to work out what gearbox I have in my KE10 - as some of you may know I'm about to do the 4AGE engine conversion, and I currently organising a T50 gearbox, but I am trying to figure out what I have now, so I can look up the specs for it. At present I have a 1500cc 5k in the car with a 5 speed manual box, with a regular cable clutch. I have done a bit of searching on the net and I figure that it is a K50 box, judging by what I have read on a few different sites, but really it could be anything.... The K50 box was used over different KE series corollas as well as the K40 yeah? Did the K40 come out in a 5 speed variation? Does anybody know how I can id the gearbox - obviously there would be numbers stamped on it somewhere, so i will have a look as soon as I can. And, if it is a K50, will it bolt straight up to a 4AGE? I know that it wont be able to handle the power of the 4AGE, just wondering....? I am sourcing a 22 spline T50 box for the 4AGE, but the only one I can get at present from an importer in Sydeny is from a 3T engine, so I will need to get a bellhousing from a 3A orr 4A engine to make it fit the 4AGE. Cheers Davros

Cool - I thought it wasn't a bad price considering the relatively low mileage on the engine, plus a 3month warranty. As far as I know its a FWD drive engine at the moment, so the cut and shut on the manifold will def be happening. I also can get a T50 box from Ichiban for 300 bucks, just need to source a bellhousing to fit it to the 4AGE - the box is from a 3T engine. Then of course have to get extractors, fuel pumps, surge tank and lines, and then work out the brakes. Let the fun begin!

They are charging around 1200 bucks for the 100kw engine with that has done 78,000 km, wiring loom, ECU, MAP sensor and coil. They will start the engine for me before we take it away, plus there is a 3-month warranty. I have been checking out ebay a bit, but figured that I would go with Ichiban so I know what I am getting, with a warranty. I have found their prices to be a bit cheaper than other jap engine importers. I figured I would probably pay a bit more for an engine etc from an Importer such as Ichiban, but probably would get an engine with less wear and tear than buying elsewhere? But at the same time, this is the first Jap engine conversion I have done, so any advice is welcome..>!

Yeah I have been searching for some pics of a KE10 with a 20v 4AGE in it for ages, but so far no luck - have plenty of pics of KE10s with 16v 4AGEs.. I have spoken to 2 engineers this week in regard to the conversion and they said that legally it is fine, the engine capacity still fits in with the RTA vechile standards for modified light vehicles. So at this stage I am going ahead with dropping a 16v 100kw in there. I am buying one from Ichiban Imports this week - 16v 4AGE 100kw with only 78 000km on the clock. I am thinking or doing a fairly comprehensive thread on the installation of the engine into my KE10, if people would be interested. I have found plenty of how-tos on putting a 16v into later model rollas but nothing on a KE10 - 4AGE conversion. Cheers for the help so far guys Davros

Lindsay - def sounds like the best way to go. I have just downloaded the list of RTA approved engineers for the NSW/Syndey area so ill go through and find someone to go and annoy. Have you got any recommendations of where to take it to and have a chat? Are you putting in a 16v or 20v? I was looking at the 20v - being a later model engine, and apparently a smoother engine to drive, but was worried about fitting it into the KE10 especially with the dizzy being mounted at the back of the engine. Figured that a 16v 100kw would be easier to get in there.

Thanks Redwarf - thought I would have a trawl about on the RTA website, and came across their vehicle standards page which has a heap of downloadable PDFS. Here is the link for anyone who may be interested: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/dow...si/vsi_dl1.html For the light vehicle modifications document - VSI 06, from the table on page 3, it seems that for a car with a tare mass of up to 1100kg with a naturally aspirated engine the maximum engine capacity (cc) cannot exceed the original tare mass (kg) x 3.0. So would I be right in assuming that a KE10, with an original tare mass of 710kg can (according to this table anyway...) accept a naturally aspirated engine up to 2130 cc? Of course there is a disclaimer stating that an engineer will be consulted, which I will do before lifting a spanner... Cheers Davros

Hey All, I'm hoping that this isn't bleeding obvious, and I've done lots of searching to find the answer, but no dice... I am looking at doing the 4AGE engine conversion into my KE10, to get more power and reliability as I have to drive the car alot further and more frequently than expected. Now I have done tonnes of required reading, both on this forum and other web sites about how to do the conversion - flipping the engine around, cut and shut on the intake, gearbox mounts, fabricating engne mounts etc. I just wanted to see if anyone knew the legal requirements to get the car engineered? Obviously bigger brakes/boosted brake system, hydraulic clutch.. I have a 5k (1500cc) in there at present, so I'm guessing putting a 1600cc 16v 100kw 4AGE in there will still be in the legal limits? I am about to get a 16v 100kw engine from Ichiban, but before I do just wanted to find out if its still cool to chuck it in a KE10 - maybe rules have changed recently. If anyone knows of a thread with this info, a website I can go to, or a place I can search this info myself it would be sweet! Thanks Davros.

Hey Craig, Not sure about the legality in TAS, but my best mate here in NSW has got a KE55 with an SR20 DET in it. He got the work done by Autosport Engineering in Kirrawee near Sydney. As far as I know, the car has the standard KE55 diff at present, Skyline R31 front disc brakes and the 5 speed gearbox from the Nissan Sylvia where the engine came from. Also has a hyraulic clutch. He has had problems with overheating, so has got the radiator serviced and re-cored, but a bigger radiator than the stock KE55 one would be better. And it is damn quick - engine hasn't been worked at all but still goes really hard. Looking at upgrading the intake plenum and bolting on a bigger turbo, then bottom end mods down the track. Hope this info helps a bit. Davros

There is a thread with exactly what you are after in the FAQ section... Here's the link: http://www.rollaclub.com/faq/index.php?tit...ki_Carb_On_A_4K Let us know how you go. I have been thinking about doing this as well, but think I will just end up chucking my twin SU's back on.. Davros

Thanks for the replies guys.. Doug - thanks for taking the time to provide so much info, its really appreciated. I have been spedning so much time sifting through info in the FAQ and the various forums and starting to piece together a plan for my engine, and tips such as yours and others I have received from other members make it so much easier to (hopefully) avoid making mistakes the first time round. And I agree with doing things right the first time.... Engine will be getting pulled apart asap.. Cheers Davros

Hope this isnt bleeding obvious, but I was wondering if 4k head can be used on a 5k engine, with 5k rocker gear and pushrods etc. I am looking at getting some head work done, and have a 4k head that I can use, so I can keep the car on the road while the work is being done, and then just change the heads over. Would the 4k head change the compression in the 5k all that much? Have just been reading a similar thread about 3k heads on 5k blocks, but didnt want to hijack that one.. Also wondering if a 4k cam is the same as a 5K cam, so I can send a spare 4k cam off to Tighe for a regrind, then just chuck it straight in my 5k...? Cheers Davros

Thanks guys, Ill check em both out...

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a good place to contact in the Sydney or Wollongong area to get work done on my 5k head. Looking at getting it ported and polished, plus bigger valves and heavy duty valve springs....

Nah mate, as far as I know from reading other threads here is that the outer port should go to the carby, and the inner port should go to the intake manifold. Try doing a search for 'vacuum advance' in the search page and see what you come up with.

Mine would have to be my mates SR20 DET powered KE55. Seems so freakin fast cause its such a small car - goes like a rocket ship...! Other than that it would be my old man's 72 Charger...gotta love a hemi.

thats a pretty sweet colour, and if you can get it for cheap then give it a bash!

hey maybe this paint job was inspired by the new commonwealth bank logo????

Try AutoPro or AutoBahn or even SuperCheap Auto if you have them down there. My old man is restoring his 72 charger and he has been getting small packets of clips from AutoPro ..as 7shades said, they have a rotating stand with all sorts of clips and stuff.

So if Yeshi's 5k head has solid lifters, is there any way of adjusting the valve clearance, or would you have to get the rocker posts machined down? I have got hydraulic lifters in my 5k, but I was thinking of changing to solid lifters...Which probably means new pushrods as well??