I'm Pissed Off!

[Clapped out]

hi guys and girls,

 

First thing's first.......I'M A RETARD WHEN IT COMES TO AUTO ELECTRICS! :hmm:

 

On a more seroius note, i decided i'd have a go at sorting out my ignition situation today, attempting to run wires to the right things...rah..rah..rah,

 

it's a bit hard to explain what i have done so the pictures will do the talking for me,

 

Things were working fine before............until i touched it today.

 

 

 

 

What i have done...I decided to wire up my fuel pump properly (i think) rather than having it running directly off of the positive on the coil (not good). You can see in the pic i have installed a relay, This is how i have wired it up,

 

On the back of the relay packet,

 

Pin30-power in

pin85-earth

pin86-switch

pin87-power out accessory

 

How i have followed

 

pin30-power source direct from the battery

pin85-earthed out to body

pin86-ignition wire in the engine bay

pin87-fuel pump

 

PROBLEM!

 

I installed a ballast resistor, i kept chewing through points every month, so i thought i'd chuck one in, since i have wired it all up this way, i start the car, then after a couple of minutes of the engine running the bastard cuts out and won't fire again, when this happenes the ballast resistor is like a frying pan and is way too hot to even touch!

 

What have i done wrong?

 

should i have not have tapped into the ignition wire to switch on the relay?

 

Can someone please shed some light on the subject for me?

 

thanks in advance,

 

phatke30!

Edited March 17, 2008 by phatke30

[Taz_Rx]

Were does the wire on the back side of the ballast resistor come from!!?? the one on the 45o angle to the BR?

 

Here's my guess. There is 2 wires coming from the stock loom in the same place. One of these is ON power, on is START power. You have both of these connected directly to the coil!!!!!!! :no2:

 

Test both with a test light, the one that has START power needs to go on the back side of the BR with the plug I asked about.

 

You may find that you're actually giving the relay a insufficient 6v trigger, which is actually causing you to run out of FUEL, not spark.....and this would also explain why the BR is getting so hot! :sob:

[Clapped out]

The wires where you are refering to tazrx, one is the power source that comes out of the factory loom and the other wire (brown), thats the wire that runs up to the relay to trip it in and out (when ignition is either switched on/off (fuel pump)).

 

And also a big favor from you to me..............please? I don't suppose you could explain to me about the ON and START power? These two wires, they are the black and red ones?

 

cheers phatke30!

Edited March 18, 2008 by phatke30

[camerondownunder88]

Seems unlikely as relays draw BUGGER all amps but if the resistor is getting MEGGA hot its resistance will increase. If it was to increase enough Id imagine the power out put will drop and possibly the realy will switch off then the fuel pump stops. When the car dies can you feel the pump running if the key is still on the on position? And is it a sudden stop or slow kinda out of fuel stop?

 

Also from what I believe the KE30 ignition system runs off 8V if you get the power from one side of the resistor possibly the relay is getting 8V and it wants 12 so it will pull more amps to get it then heat will increase then resistance will also.

 

And is that a stock coil or a GT40 type of performance coil?

 

And do you run a tacho? When the car dies if there is no spark tacho will read 0. If tacho reads most likely there is still spark so could be the fuel pump again so see what it reads when it next dies.

 

And just to share the experience a few weeks back going down the high way my KE30 jsut dies. oil light still off and charge off so looked at tacho reading 0. Straight away I new it was my earth wire on my dizzy. I seem to always have trouble with this slipping off. But one night on the side of the road I put the wire on when this happened and cranked it up. I ended up cracking the ceramic block thing the wire pokes through the dizzy in and the wire was shorting through the crack took for ever to find the hair line crack so if car dies while driving down the road so the motor is spinning if the tacho reads 0 means you are losing spark so the BR might not be able to handle the load so try to wire the relay into another live wire maybe like a thermo fan one if you have a thermo.

 

Cheers

Cameron

 

Cheers

Cameron

[Clapped out]

^^^^^^^^i hear where your coming from cam, although lack of fuel doesn't seem to be the problem.

 

What i did this arvo was i pulled out the good old multi-metre!

 

Okey doke, first i thought id see if there was any voltage coming from the two wires Tazrx suggested............but to no avail! there was no voltage at all coming from the wires with the ignition on and even with the engine cranking, is this a problem?

 

I tested the voltage, from the wire that comes out of the loom to the ballast resistor,

 

- 11.98v (car not running)

 

After the ballast resistor with ingnition on and car not running - 3.86v, is this normal?

 

re-routed the so to speak "enguage wire" to turn the fuel pump on, directly to the battery, started the car and the prick still stalled even with the fuel pump on! I've checked the fuel side of things, every ting A O K! i done this with the two wires tazrx suggested........disconnected.

 

Although the ballast resister is still hot like a frying pan...........what the?

 

I've also checked the condition of the above mention (cameron) in the dizzy...............A O K again,

 

i'm lost!

 

forgot to mention....stock coil.

 

cheers phatke30!

Edited March 18, 2008 by phatke30

[camerondownunder88]

MM battery seems OK. What voltage does it drop to while cranking?

 

Also resistance of the standard Toyota BR on coil is 1.1 - 1.3 OHMS.

 

So lets use V=IR

Coil runs at * volts and resistance is 1.3 ohms well use.

8=I * 1.3

8 / 1.3=I

I= 6.154 amps.

 

Now lets use 12 volts:

12=I * 1.3

12/1.3 = I

I= 9.231 amps.

 

Can see the amp load on the wire is up by half 50% nearly. So if the fuel pump some how is wanting to use 12 volts it will draw that many amps. Through the resistor to get it. Now that is for the coil at 12V so the pump (VL ones I have draw 4 - 6 amps usually) so say you dray 6 amps for pump (yes I know yours is a small carby one but this is a demo)

You could add 6 amps for pump + 9.2 for coil when it gets 12V

 

so 15.2 amps it will draw. The resistor is meant ot run at 8V and 6.1 amps so your more than double amp load and volts IF the pump is some how drawing its power through it or the relay trigger is drawing 12 volts.

 

This could explain heat.

 

Now I'm no guru at this but I kinda see that. Maybe if your multimeter showed nothing at the coil you blew a fuse? If so id say amp draw to high move pump wire. But is VERY odd it would be this as well a relay is in place this should prevent this.

 

Now those calculations above are how I kinda see it and a demo rought not accurate apart from resistance of a stock BR go it out of a manual. So try priming carby disconnect fuel pump check fuses. If it runs Id say just to be safe find another circuit to run the pump as nothing worse than just having car die for no reason in traffic.

 

Cheers

Cameron

Edited March 18, 2008 by camerondownunder88

[Clapped out]

^^^^^ I didnt check the voltage while cranking. One would think it shouldn't drop bugger all.

 

When it comes to all the ohms equations.........? i don't understand.

 

You mentioned i may have blew a fuse for the ignition? all is good, checked all the fuses, ive always got power from the main power wire that comes out of the loom to the ballast resistor even after the car has conked out, those other two auxiliary wires (so to speak) that come out of the loom (see pic avove, red/black to coil) don't have power at all in every senario.

 

You also mentioned about disconnecting the fuel pump and priming? i alreay tried that, well sort of, i just removed the trigger wire and connected directly to the battery just to see if it had been a problem, still no difference.

 

since i don't have a real clue what I'm doing, i got the old boy to check it out.

 

not sure what he was measuring, he said that the trigger wire to the fuel pump relay is drawing next to nothing, so should't be a problem there,

 

ALTHOUGH, As you (cam) mentioned above, the resistor is suppose to run at 8 volts with power running through it?

 

i have average 12v at one end and average 4 volts the other end, if standard is suppose to be 8v this is not good.

 

QUESTION, are there different types of ballast resistors?

 

Maybe i'm running the wrong one if thats the case?

 

Seems quite simple if everything seems to be in order and the only noticable problem from the beggining is the ballast resistor (getting hot), and a different voltage outcome.

 

My spare parts guy seems to think ballast resistors are all the same, can someone clarify this?

 

also thatnks for the help,

 

cheers phatke30!

[camerondownunder88]

Hi,

If the trigger line draws BUGGER all current well we can rule out pulling to much.

 

Now 4V at one end...Umm I dare say as it gets hot resistance increases and the coil drops lower than 4V power supply and umm yeah can't make a spark. I dare say your just running out of spark.

 

BR can just die so try replacing one with a spare I'm sure you have in the shed give that a shot.

 

As 4V is very low and as stuff gets hotter resistance goes up this will affect it the hotter it gets it starts getting hotter faster bad cycle so just a new BR should do it.

 

Also cranking power will drop in a battery think mine drops to 10V. So if the BR has 4volts coming out when car is stoped and battery is making 12V. If your say drops to 10V the coil might only then get 2V. can't even run a light bulb on that. And a corolla in good tune manuals say should be able to throw a 6mm spark whne the plug is out the motor so with 2V and stock system I can't see this happening so yeah jsut a new BR I think will solve your issues.

 

All my Toyota manuals confirm all ballast resistors are the same. So any corolla KE one at reco should work KE1X to 7X.

 

But just out of interest some KE rollas came with a built in resistor in the coil. They run less resistance than an external BR and the coil has 3 terminals on the top. Listed to be in 5K vans and in the TE47 and the more rare KE3X range we didn't get. Just though id add that useless fact.

[tojo2]

The brown wire that you got going to the coil minus side, is that to the pump minus ?

 

If so remove it form coil and ground it to car body instead. See how you go.

 

One of the wires Taz Rx mentioned should give 12v while cranking to ensure strong start spark. This should remain connected on coil +. I'm guessing red one.

 

don't know about the other one . Could possibly be for factory tacho - coil. Try tracing .

 

Anything else hooked up to coil that doesnt belong there ?

Edited March 19, 2008 by tojo2

[Clapped out]

I think your on the ball cameron, i'll have a dig through the shed and see if i've got a spare.

 

the ballast resistor in the pic is a brand new one, although it seems like it could be faulty.

 

tojo2, the brown wire thats on the minus side of the the coil goes to the tachometre, there is a black wire on the minus side as well (hard to see in pic) which goes to the distributor.

 

the red wire you also mentioned, i have tried to measure (even when cranking) although there doesn't seem to be any power what so ever,

 

and yeah, i've disconnected all the unnecesseary wires (non factory), well removed as they were leading to no-where (maybe install for some reason by a previous owner).

 

cheers phatke30!