Converted Ae71

[Moses_33]

Hi everyone,

Have been trying to do a conversion in a AE71 wagon to the 4-AGE engine. I got a donor engine from an AE82 (1987) Red top Big port engine from what I understand.

 

Here is the story so far.

 

We have got the wiring and everything in place and looks like it is all running correctly. Every test we have done indicates continuity, voltage and earthing are correct. We have injector pulse and ignition. Fuel delivery up to the engine is running fine at correct pressures.

 

Problem: It will not increase the fuel mixture and run correctly i.e add throttle and it dies instantly. :) :D :blinks:

 

Starts on cold start injectors... runs for about ten seconds and then stops. If you try to add throttle it dies instantly. Immobilizer has been removed from the car.

 

HAVE checked the injectors. They deliver fuel with no blockages. We took them out of the car and connected straight to a VL fuel pump. 50ml in ten seconds for each injector.

A second ECU same problem. Neither ECU gives an error code to indicate MAP or TPS problems.

A second MAP sensor still no change. Also no change if you disconnect the MAP sensor.

 

Bought an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator so that the right fuel pressure is delivered. Increase this all the way to 100psi and still gave the same problem.

 

Have no idea what to do next. Compression test is fine. Leak test no problems. Water temp Sensor appears to be in the correct Ohms readings.

 

I have had a race engineer take a look and all he could confirm was it was definitely NOT INCREASING the fuel mixture. He checked the electrics and confirmed everything is running as it should. He showed us a trick of disconnecting the air filter and spraying fuel directly into the T/B we can run the car this way but it still does not increase the RPM when the throttle is cracked. Did it like this to bring temp's up to normal. Have also drained the fuel and put in brand new 98 (Mobile 8000) into the tank so I know we have clean fuel.

 

Short of taking it to a mechanic and getting told the same thing that we already know. I thought I would try here again.

 

Does anyone have any ideas as we are completely out. :blinks: :bash: :bash:

[parrot]

This type of question comes up time and again.

 

Assuming you have wired it up correctly, and that is often the root of many problems, I would start by looking at your throttle position sensor. Make sure it is setup properly.

 

Also, go here and download the 4AGE diagnostics manual, and work through it appropriately.

 

ECU and sensors rarely fail, usually they are either not wired up correctly, or setup correctly where this applies.

Edited July 18, 2010 by parrot

[Moses_33]

Thanks Parrot.

I have already been using the diagnostic manual... It has been a fantastic help.

 

Is there a way to "re-set" the TPS? We unplugged it and the car seemed to idle a lot better so yes I think at last we are coming to the end. Now need to find a second TPS to try and see if that fixes the problem.

 

Cheers

Moses

[Scoobzd]

Even if the correct pressure is there from the pump, a s/h clogged efi fuel filter can cause this too :D

 

If not replaced new - Do it ! :)

[parrot]

It isn't a matter of resetting the TPS, rather setting it up appropriately.

 

The ECU can only control fuel from the input it gets from sensors. You will see the manual details how to adjust it correctly with a feeler gauge and multimeter.

 

It's easy to do, and once it is right, it's right. Then at least you can eliminate that as a cause.

 

My only other thought is a massive vacuum leak somewhere. You have the vacuum tank for the TVIS all connected up properly?

[Trev]

Moses the TPS calibration should be in the 4age manual you have, If not let me know and I will scan mine.

[Moses_33]

Ok

 

Have calibrated the TPS an also got a second one to clarify. Has not fixed the problem.

 

Scoobzd: Brand new pump, brand new efi inline filter so double check and made sure the filter was in the right direction.

 

Parrot: Yes the Tvis has been connected but don't have a vacuum test kit to check for leaks. Also have a new MAP on its way from the UK

 

Trev: Thanks mate. Yeah it is in the manual so I won't need the scan but thanks.

 

If the new MAP Sensor doesn't change things I will have to take her to a mechanic friend and leave it with him for a few day's and see if he comes up with anything.

 

Thanks everyone.. I have tried to listen and learn as best I can. I love this little beast and it will not beat me!! She will run soon and then become the family wagon she should be.

 

Cheers

Moses

[ke70dave]

i know this is a pretty lame suggestion, as you seem to be well up on mechanics stuff.

 

but you have ensured that your cam timing is correct?

 

and also your ignition timing?

 

sounds like you have the engine running remotely well on idle, so i suggest grabbing hold of your dizzy and spinning it around in all directions (don't take it out, so you are limited to movement) and seeing if you can get it to run better?

 

its agricultural i know, but its a good test, see if anything changes.

 

i had a simliar problem with my 4age, would idle great, but would fail with any throttle touch.

 

also your engine will run with both the map and tps unplugged. it will go into a limp mode, run VERY rich, but it will run. so try that too. try only unplugging one or the other. (Map effects this much more than tps, with no TPS you will only notice a different with how the engine free revs, it will tend to take ages for the revs to come back down)

 

my tps was stuffed when i got my 4age going, but it didnt give an ecu error. it was actually doing very similar symptoms as you describe (fine idel, fail at reving) only way i figured it out was by unplugging it and magically it wanted to run fine. i actually drove the car around with no tps for a while, waiting for a new one.

 

don't be afraid to unplug sensors on the 4age for testing purposes, i had my engine running only with the dizzy/sparkplugs and injectors plugged in. the ecu is pretty crude and it will happily just supply injector pulses and spark with hardly any input!!:)

[Moses_33]

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to give you all an update on my little beast.

 

She is still not running 100% yet however I have been introduced to a guy who is a whiz with 4AGE's.

 

Have got him stumped when we unplugged an injector and the car idle nearly perfectly and revved correctly. Plugged it back in and it died instantly.

 

Tried this on all four injectors and have the same results. Have out in different injectors and now we can start the car with one unplugged but it will run fine now with all four plugged in. NO CHANGES TO ANYTHING EXCEPT THE INJECTORS!!! Got him stumped for an explanation so with his help we are slowly going over absolutely everything and step by step eliminating anything that may be problematic. We may have proper life in the next couple of weeks and then I can finally get some pics after she has a wash.

 

I will write a better report when we have finalized everything and let you know in detail what we found. Thank you again to everyone that has helped from this forum. Your ideas and tricks have been very helpful in eliminating different parts along the way.

 

Regards

Moses

[Trev]

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to give you all an update on my little beast.

 

She is still not running 100% yet however I have been introduced to a guy who is a whiz with 4AGE's.

 

Have got him stumped when we unplugged an injector and the car idle nearly perfectly and revved correctly. Plugged it back in and it died instantly.

 

Tried this on all four injectors and have the same results. Have out in different injectors and now we can start the car with one unplugged but it will run fine now with all four plugged in. NO CHANGES TO ANYTHING EXCEPT THE INJECTORS!!! Got him stumped for an explanation so with his help we are slowly going over absolutely everything and step by step eliminating anything that may be problematic. We may have proper life in the next couple of weeks and then I can finally get some pics after she has a wash.

 

I will write a better report when we have finalized everything and let you know in detail what we found. Thank you again to everyone that has helped from this forum. Your ideas and tricks have been very helpful in eliminating different parts along the way.

 

Regards

Moses

 

Sounds like you had the wrong impedance injectors in it.

[thatdude]

i have had the same thing happen. One car it was the cam was one tooth out which put the cam out. Maybe this cld help u a little

[Moses_33]

Trev: Yeah but they were the same injectors that went back in (colour that is )

 

Thatdude: Yeah I tripled checked that one. I have also had the mechanic double check it too!! But thanks