altezzaclub Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 few dyno shows it below 180hP(stock) A dyno day showed 5 Altezzas around 122-123KW at the rear wheels. I'm not sure how that scales up to factory bhp. 4 of them had lightweight flywheels, (the most common change) a foam drop-in air filter and a change of rear muffler. They might be 5KW over stock. Those are the changes I've made to mine too, although I've never had it on a dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I am sorry for the late reply, indeed 3SGE BEAMS is a good engine, a friend bought one, i don't know which version is it, but looks very beautiful, he says that the engine is over rated!! few dyno shows it below 180hP(stock) while the rated out put is 210ps?? :blush: You do know that dynos (unless they are engine dynos) measure power at the wheels, which will always be less than power at the flywheel (which is what factory figures will quote) due to drivetrain losses etc....so 180HP at the wheels might be 220HP at the flywheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 You do know that dynos (unless they are engine dynos) measure power at the wheels, which will always be less than power at the flywheel (which is what factory figures will quote) due to drivetrain losses etc....so 180HP at the wheels might be 220HP at the flywheel. thanks for input, drivetrain losses at the lowest scale are assumed to be 17%, (if i remember correctly, which prove your above statement!! but i mentioned 180hp, not RWHP or WHP!!! ... :hmm: as far as i recall, allmost every engine is rated at crank, i was reffering to crank HP, as i compered it with stock 220 HPS which is power at crank... Any how, 2ZZ is no match when it comes to race with K20.. even if i completely forget about its reliability issues. :yes: 4GR-FSE spec's look really promising, i hope ill find it. ... :) thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) thanks for input, drivetrain losses at the lowest scale are assumed to be 17%, (if i remember correctly, which prove your above statement!! but i mentioned 180hp, not RWHP or WHP!!! ... :hmm: as far as i recall, allmost every engine is rated at crank, i was reffering to crank HP, as i compered it with stock 220 HPS which is power at crank... You said 180HP on a dyno. So unless it was an engine dyno, then you cannot assume the value to be correct. Even the chassis dynos which back-calculate flywheel HP aren't accurate, and the 17% drivetrain loss is a ballpark figure and different for every car (and different FWD to RWD to AWD as well). Yes, factory figures are always flywheel figures (sometimes varies as to which ancillaries are hooked up though). However, remember that not all BEAMS engines are the same - the redtop found in MR2s and Celicas only had ~200HP whereas the blacktop found in the RS200 had 210. That, and the engines are a good 10 years old now, so they do tend to lose a bit of power with age. Edited July 12, 2011 by Hiro Protagonist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 lets just make one thing clear here.....dyno readings CANNOT be compared to other dyno readings or factory quoted figures. well they can, but are potentially +/- 25% or even more different. use them as a ball park figure to check if you are getting about the right amount of power, but 180-220 is what, 20% difference? thats pretty close. there are just to many variables. there are heaps of settings inside the dyno, that know one ever really considers when quoting figures, i don't even know them all...but if they aren't all set to be the same, you will get different readings on two identical dynos next to each other. dynos are used to make comparisons ON THE DAY for tuning purposes. do a run, change some stuff, do another run, check the AFR's, make sure it actually made more power COMPARED to the previous run, repeat this process untill you find the optimal settings that produce the most power ON THE DAY ON THAT DYNO. then lock up the ECU and your done. you can't then take the car across town to a completely different dyno, and expect the readings to be exactly the same..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted August 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 lets just make one thing clear here.....dyno readings CANNOT be compared to other dyno readings or factory quoted figures. well they can, but are potentially +/- 25% or even more different. use them as a ball park figure to check if you are getting about the right amount of power, but 180-220 is what, 20% difference? thats pretty close. there are just to many variables. there are heaps of settings inside the dyno, that know one ever really considers when quoting figures, i don't even know them all...but if they aren't all set to be the same, you will get different readings on two identical dynos next to each other. dynos are used to make comparisons ON THE DAY for tuning purposes. do a run, change some stuff, do another run, check the AFR's, make sure it actually made more power COMPARED to the previous run, repeat this process untill you find the optimal settings that produce the most power ON THE DAY ON THAT DYNO. then lock up the ECU and your done. you can't then take the car across town to a completely different dyno, and expect the readings to be exactly the same..... Agreed, well Said, !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted August 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 guys, need an input on 2JZGE, non VVTI, will it be a good option .. i want to know about its rating on drag racing. the power output is equalant to k20r, if i install in my ke70 or kp60, the reason why i selected this motor are following. 225 hps completes at 6000 rpm, impressive for me. 213 tq completes at 4800, make it a bit easy to control the wheel spins. its cheap and availability of parts is easy.. thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappy36 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 What about a 3RZ out of a hilux? guys in america are making 1000hp from these, with a standard bottom end and an aftermarket turbo setup they make 400hp easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted August 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Look for a NA motor..... also I was reffering to 2JZGE.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willis Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'm a bit late but is there any reason for not just buying a ka20r? If you're competing with one and want to match/beat it why not just get one? They are expensive but if you're going to the extent of a putting a 2jz into a ke70 or a kp60 I don't think budget should be a problem. If you can't beat them, join them. If you still can't beat them then go turbo haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 I'm a bit late but is there any reason for not just buying a ka20r? If you're competing with one and want to match/beat it why not just get one? They are expensive but if you're going to the extent of a putting a 2jz into a ke70 or a kp60 I don't think budget should be a problem. If you can't beat them, join them. If you still can't beat them then go turbo haha Well i asked, as if there is any toyota engine, that can compete with honda's engine. on NA grounds.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willis Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Well i asked, as if there is any toyota engine, that can compete with honda's engine. on NA grounds.. No 4 cylinder that i know of. Beams 3sge would maybe come close but its been suggested in this thread already. Just buy the k20 and work with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil86 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Best option either beams 3sge or SR20VE if you are willing to go Nissan. Both have variable valve timing etc both 2L 4cylinder both close to equal with K20. Anything else you need more cylinders or a turbo or a F20c Honda S2000 motor which is way better than a k20 but so expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Best option either beams 3sge or SR20VE if you are willing to go Nissan. Both have variable valve timing etc both 2L 4cylinder both close to equal with K20. Anything else you need more cylinders or a turbo or a F20c Honda S2000 motor which is way better than a k20 but so expensive. what if i had to decide among the followings... 2jzge distributor vs 3sge 9dual vvti . beams.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 2J is bigger, heavier, slower revving but will make much more power with factory turbo setup. 3S is more compact, lighter and more revvy. Depends what you want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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