Calling On Efi Gurus

[Twinky]

Hey guys,

 

After much stuffing around and alot of fallen through ECU purchases because most people who advertise shit don't bother responding or putting the correct

contact information up, I have finally got the car to fire up and actually hold rpm. Unfortunately It's not holding idle speed. A few things come to mind,

throttle gap on the butterfly, air idle bypass screw, injector opening time. So, what gap should I set on the butterfly? Should I set the idle air screw halfway and go from there?

another issue that I thought I had down pat was fueling. Apparently not. I have 290cc Injectors from a 7MGE (yellow injectors) and was assunimg an idle opening time of 4ms would have been fine

to start with but it seems to run too rich with that and will not start up. So now I have it down to 0.5ms and I can start the car as well as revving it and holding rpm but only around 3000rpm and above at 50%

throttle. I would like to know what kind of fuel flow people are using on thier injection setups. Also one thing to note is that my injection system is old so it fires every injector at once, every rpm.

I can change that to 2 times every rpm if that might be better for tuning... Also, no I won't use smaller injectors because I will be using these with my supercharger setup once I get a hold of tuning

the motor in an N/A setup.

 

For those of you who are a bit more savvy, this is what my fuel maps look like at the moment (just as a start point)

 

 

 

 

 

Injector Pulse (ms)

_____0.5_____0.5_____0.5_____0.5_____0.5_____0.5______1_______3_______6_______8_______10

 

Throttle position

_____0%______10%_____20%_____30%_____40%_____50%_____60%_____70%_____80%_____90%_____100%

 

There are a shitload more load points but this just depicts what my curve looks like.

 

 

Any info would be great! Yes i have already consulted the great google but every time I want to find some sort of information on fueling needs I get an infinate amount of links

to low carb diets.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Twinky

[irokin]

Not a guru but I know how much it sucks having to get a base tune done yourself. You just sorta stumble around in the dark until you can figure out whats going on. Batch fire is going to suck, what kind of ECU is it? I'll see if I can dig out one of my old Wolf maps to give you some kind of idea of transient pulse widths. Its with 700cc injectors, but 4x290cc is bigger than that anyway.

[SLO-030]

I havent got too far into the injection stuff yet for the blower but i've been looking and book marking alot of info.

 

I know your not running a MegaSquirt, but possibly some info to be had for you?

 

http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html

[Teddy]

You need to get an oxygen sniffer in the exhaust pipe & read what the mix ratio's are. As you increase the RPM, you really need to map out whats going on.

 

For turning a car like this, unless you have a known working formula you can program in as a base map, Trying to get a proper tune without the use of a dyno is going to be long,

 

hit n miss & possibly quite damaging to your motor. Be.. careful now. Id image your well aware of Lean & Rich dangers lol.

 

Just by looking at that curve of fuel vs Engine RPM, it looks like its going to be Lean, Flat line then Rich haha. Id be interested to see what it is in reality.

 

Besides, if your getting a Supercharger on the thing, Why.. try to tune the thing as it is atm, only having to do it again later, differently ? unless your running a 2nd map with a different tune i suppose

 

for supercharger mode?

 

*shrugs*

 

Good luck lol.

 

Oh, and throttle body adjustments - unless you re-designing the wheel, id be incline to get the manual out and set the thing up as it was from factory, simply for the fact of knowing when

 

the car should be at idol, your going to have a known amount of air flow through the bypass setup. Along with the ability to still retain the cold idol bump up / heating circuit in the TB.

 

Well, that just what i think anyway : )

[ke70dave]

which ECU are you using twinky?

 

edit.

 

there are calculators for these kinds of things, eg

 

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/calcinjpulse.html

 

but you will need to know the vaccume present, the fuel pressure, and all those other parameters.

 

the fuel pressure is very important, as that governs everything. what are you using in terms of a fuel pressure regulator?

 

at first glance 290cc injector for each cylidner seems quite large ona 1.3L, so you MAY have trouble getting a good idle anyway.

 

2nd edit.

 

http://forums.haltech.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1615&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

 

this may be helpful, the spreadsheet looks good.

Edited September 20, 2011 by ke70dave

[Taz_Rx]

Pm me an email address. I can't send you a map you can load as previously mentioned but I can send you one you can see with the wolf software!

 

TeddyIf he tunes it now he'll only need to adjust the boost compensation later.

[Twinky]

I am using a Haltech E6. Currently it is only doing fuel not spark because the ignition output is dead.

I've noticed that my graph will be a bit weird at first but that is just me stuffing around seeing what works.

I Do have a 02 sensor reading at around 15.5:1 at the moment so I'm going to up the injection time to 0.7ms.

I went through the Haltech calculator and it shows an injection time of 2.95ms, but you have to remember that

calculator is for sequential injection so I divide that by two to get batch fired times. It comes out as 1.5ms

but I have already used that setting and it comes up as too rich.

 

@Teddy: I am well aware of lean and rich mixtures so at this point I am going for a slightly rich idle to keep things on the safe side.

Even with an injection time of 0.25ms it still won't go overly lean, it does go down that way but not to any dangerous level.

With the throttle setup I am in the unfortunate position of not being able to get a hold of a 4K-EFI manual so I am stabbing in the dark at the moment.

 

Oh and Dave, it's a 1.5L :), cheers by the way because those calculators show that I am very close to where I need to be with my tune.

The linearity shows where I need to make my changes too.

 

Taz, my e-mail is [email protected] I don't worry about spam anymore. I get over 400 spam e-mails every week anyway.

I would definitely like to see your tune because it is going to be somewhat close to what mine needs to look like, except for

the fact that I'll not have to deal with turbo lag.

 

Cheers again!

[Teddy]

Twinky - Email one of the TRD Brothers on here, with the white ke70 rally car. Chris or Tony. One of them might have the book your looking for. Proove you have nice shin pads or a sheep & they might look up what you need =D

 

Taz_Rx - Cool, you learn something everyday : ) Id love to learn more about the aftermarket tuning side of things with the... introduction of other Air(s) =D

 

haha rock on

[Twinky]

It Idles!!!!! Well you could call it that....

I'll let the video do the talking.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11VWiZc2u8o

 

So.... Is it running too rich? My 02 sensor can't register because of the idle being soo unsteady and is bouncing from 15.6 all the way to rich.

The garage eventually fills up with white smoke, not oily, maybe a little black when I actually revv it. a slight increase in throttle opening does nothing, but then

half a mm later it goes full ball at 30% throttle. I am now tuning off of manifold pressure rather than throttle.

Here is the pic of that map only this is vs manifold pressure not throttle.

Also this is the same for all RPM ranges up to 2500rpm.

 

 

Should I beef up the mid section? Or could it be a leaking inlet manifold (throttle not responding at low opening).

Or should I doo the opposite and lower the fuel bars?

Either way it sounds cool at the moment.

 

Oh and by the way I forgot to mention, the fuel pressure regulator is sitting at 44psi at the moment. too high?

It is a boost referrenced adjustable regulator with a lovely pressure guage attached.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Twinky

[Twinky]

NEW UPDATES PENDING!

[Twinky]

Ok..... Found a plug is missing on the inlet right at the back where I couldn't see it.

Played around with the fuel pressure but it didn't really change much between 44 and 35psi.

Then I thought I'd check the timing. Wooow it was at 20 degrees! The bolt was a tad loose and it let the dizzy rotate a bit.

So here is is!!! current injector cycle is 1.4ms. Much less and it runs lean at idle.

At first it is just idling, then I apply about 20% throttle then about 20% more then I give it a squeeze. This is for both videos

and sorry but I thought the screen on the laptop might have ended up a bit clearer (second video)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky5MK1V2jFQ

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQj4qa5LNXM

 

 

 

Cheers for the files Taz, I'll be sifting through them very shortly.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Just had a loomk at a few of the maps, what is the load reffereing to? Throttle?

Also the first map you sent me along with the software shows up as a blank tune.

The rest of them work fine. At least now I know what it should start to look like in terms of ms increase per rpm.

Cheers!

Edited September 21, 2011 by Twinky