rthy Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 I'm thinking of converting the 4ac to lpg gas for the work car, but would it be worth it? anyone know places in melb that do the lpg conversions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthy Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 yea iv been around to google whitepages yellowpages toymods twincam and only found that 4age's run alright but what about the 4ac or 4kc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 It's the same as any other car. You'll experience a power drop, and an increase in fuel consumption. I wouldn't bother unless your doing over 1000kms per week. Even then it'd take you a couple of years to recoupe the savings. Thumbs down from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolla__Boy Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 If it is well set up, and tuned properly, and NOT dual fuel....you will have the same power....When my dad got his XY put on straight gas, it made slightly more hp on the dyno than before. When I got my license gas was (I think) around 30c's a litre, and it was worth it....but now, gas is just cheaper than half what petrol is, and it consumes about double the amount of gas per kilometre than petrol, my old work van used to get 300k's out of $35 worth of gas, which was around 70 litres, if it had been on petrol, it would have gotten 300k's off $35 worth of petrol, so once you take into account the minimum $1000ish for install....it's just not worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthy Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 yea i was thinking of running stright gas into a 4age or 4ac or 4kc but if its just ganna be the same ulp might as well stick to ulp. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love ke70 Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 rolla boy, how is that you get more power when you arnt running dual fuel? is it because they are able to advance the timing further? u got your license 8 or 9 years ago didnt you? back then petrol wasnt much more than 65 cents, if that, so really gas is always around half the price of petrol. i disagree with you saying that you consume twice as much aswell. ive done some reading and the most people say is 30% more, which when you factor in half the price of petrol, it really isnt too bad i calculated, that with the 1ggte ke70 compared to the 4k ke70, gas will be much much cheaper A) because the 4k isnt enough power i tend flat foot everywhere B) becuase the 1g is lots and lotsa power i will be lucky to get flat foot very often. so just with that you can probably cancel out the difference in economy you get from gas compared to petrol, because the engine see's less time at what so now, i will still have reams more performance for half the price...seems worth it too me :P but my car came with the gas system so yeah, kinda different but what i would say to you rthy is that yes gas can go on any engine. in old engines not designed for ULP u will need oil droppers in the head, or some bullshit like that and as rolla boy said with a stock car, its really not going to be worth it, but maybe if you did a conversion, it wouldnt be much dearer than getting the ecu and getting that wired up. so maybe, when you decide to go something with more power (if thats your intention) do it then, and that way you can run more boost anyway :y: ive heard standard lpg has a RON of 105 and pure propane is 130...mmm silly boost lol so yeah, hope ive helped, and not confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthy Posted February 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 yea, i know that gas can run on pretty much most cars (as seen in euro spec cars) but when i did my research on lpg was with v6's about 2 -4 years ago, but since then iv been playing with 4a motors and never really looked into putting gas until now... just wasnt sure if it was worth it, as in distance travel before refule, power loss, etc. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolla__Boy Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 rolla boy, how is that you get more power when you arnt running dual fuel? is it because they are able to advance the timing further? u got your license 8 or 9 years ago didnt you? back then petrol wasnt much more than 65 cents, if that, so really gas is always around half the price of petrol. i disagree with you saying that you consume twice as much aswell. ive done some reading and the most people say is 30% more, which when you factor in half the price of petrol, it really isnt too bad i calculated, that with the 1ggte ke70 compared to the 4k ke70, gas will be much much cheaper A) because the 4k isnt enough power i tend flat foot everywhere B) becuase the 1g is lots and lotsa power i will be lucky to get flat foot very often. so just with that you can probably cancel out the difference in economy you get from gas compared to petrol, because the engine see's less time at what so now, i will still have reams more performance for half the price...seems worth it too me :P but my car came with the gas system so yeah, kinda different Petrol was around 79 cents, so it was a bit under half the price, and you can disagree all you like, I was just stating that my work van used twice as much gas per kilometre than it would have on petrol, which is a fact, perhaps it was not tuned well? Who knows, but if you bought a car with the gas on it, then yes it's probably worth having, but your car would still not cost a great deal if it was on petrol, as you said you barely need to accelerate to get the same performance as you would have with the 4K. My 4K uses less fuel with the SC on, as I don't have to rev the tits off it to get it up hills etc, obviously it uses more if I get into it all the time. And dual fuel is not the optimal way to run, because you can only tune an engine to run 100% on one fuel source at a time, you can tune it to 100% for petrol, or you can tune it to 100% for gas, and the tuning will be different, so to get it to run well enough on both, you have to sacrifice some from each, to get a happy medium, if that makes sense. This is what my gas mechanic tells me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLOTH Snr Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 In 1998-99 petrol and gas both went up by about 30cents. I have had many 6cyl on gas/petrol and 1staight gas. My estimate was it took 2years to save the cost. The staight gas did run better. Oil droppers are expensive. A flashlube resivoiur is a good idea. Thats right the same stuff you add to ULP. it was origanally invented as a gas addative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolla__Boy Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Or don't use anything, my old XY, has been on gas for 20 years, and still runs the same heads as it did before it was done, and has never once had an issue. I know the people who own it now, and I actually saw it yesterday. hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD ke70 Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 (edited) i've owned a straight LPG (K) powered corolla and it was good. it produced better power than ulp, but the engine was built for it. higher compression to make use of the higher octane that LPG has, had a little more advance on the ignition as well. it's a lot cleaner fuel, the oil after 10,000km's is still clean, and it's EPA approved. use to cost me about $15 to fill a 40L tank and i use to get close to 500km's from it. so to me it was worth it, but i never paid for the conversion. Edited February 5, 2006 by TRD ke70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendact Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 I used to run hire cars including a stretch limo, all on dual fuel. All cars were tuned to gas as petrol was more of a back up for long trips etc.... my DA LTD Stretch did 380km to a tank of gas around town and cost $25 to fill, on petrol it would do around 430km and cost $65 to fill but this is going on 1993/94 fuel prices. Not a lot of km's to a tank I know but the car was 1995kg's empty that is no fuel in the tanks, nothin in the bars, just the car it self (still less then half the cost of petrol for 50km less distance). Or 2 standard fairlane/LTD did 440km to a tank of gas around town and 480km on petrol and cost the same to fill, so do the maths and gas is cheaper and also cleaner, we had the head done on one of the cars at 285,000km and the machanic could not belive it he said the engine only looked as if it had done less then 100,000km. But remember I had these cars tuned on a dyno by a guy that built performance engines to run on gas so he was not just your every day gas converter or car tuner. With current petrol costs if you spend $60 or more a week on petrol you will recover the cost of a gas conversion in 18 months based on the conversion cost of a Falcon or Commodore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Rolla Boy - that workvan was f@$kED. We run a 85 model Falcon, and we get about 15% less range compared to the petrol range. I'll tell you what the shit is though, the dealer fitted LPG dual fuel systems in VT onwards commodores! When you accelerate to overtake etc, the ECU realises it, and lets a little bit of petrol into the mixture, which means you get no loss... it rocks, and uses say $10 of petrol into the mix over a few months. If that system could be economically done on any car, it would rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Hardware Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 trendact knows the score i work in the taxi industry if we didn't run LPG on the cabs, we would be broke. It takes about 65,000 klms to cut even on a $2k gas install. Just remember you will go through spark plug leads about twice as fast on an LPG car. Increase in consumption is about 30%. In city driving, an AU falcon will do about 18L/100klms of LPG its around 14L/100klms of Petrol usually a shift is around 300klms, twice a day. 100klms (18L gas @59.9) = $10.72 (cheaper than my 4kc) 100klms (14L petrol @112.9 = $15.80 (more expensive than my 4kc) We save about $5 a per shift per day. Avg of 12 shifts per week = $60 saving per car per week $60 per car x 16 cars = $960/week saving. one car lasts us 3years. 1 $2k gasfit is payed back in 34 weeks. If we put a car on at christmas, we are paid back by around ekka time. The other 120 weeks the car is on for we are winning. MY TIP: only put 6-cylinders on gas (or maybe a 2.0L+ 4cyl). cos if you are gonna get gas, its so f@$kin cheap you may as well treat yourself with a little power. it takes around 2-3yrs of normal driving to recoup. ONLY HAVE GAS IF YOU ARE A CAREER/FLEET/PROFESSIONAL driver ie limo/taxi/courier etc etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE-JG Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Finally some detailed observations based on real life experience - just what I've been waiting to hear. Sobering.............. Looks like it would take way to long to pay off in a 4cyl. I've just been pondering to put gas in my KE70 wagon with 5K+mild cam. Goes really great with this combo. Probably has enough power to spare for steady driving with gas, but then I live in the hills and need all of it every time I want to outrun one of those UAV's (Urban Assault Vehicles) up the Landsborough/Maleny hill! Like the man said, "treat yourself to all the power you can get." Guess I'd better stick with what I've got........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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