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4Age Into Ae71 Mod Plate


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Drew Edward Thompson‎Rollaclub.com

April 7 at 2:52pm · Kilcoy ·

I got a question for everyone? Is it true you can put a 4age into a ae71 with no mode plate cause it's a bolt in engine and their is no need for modifications done. And if so does that mean you can put one in and drive it on your red p's. Also some people say it's calassed as a EFI or something, just confused.

 

 

Craig Tregear

The E means EFI (I believe). The C in 4AC is for carburetor (sometimes the C in Toyota engine numbering means Californian emissions).

 

 

Craig Tregear

You just need to be careful about the difference between no modifications requires and production option (as I don't think Aus has AE71s with 4AGEs), there's a lot of fine lines. When I put a 7k into my KE55 I got told several different conflicting stories from the Victorian RTA.

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

Yeah I understand, that's why I'm confused and trying to get everyone's opinions. I've looked on the government site and didn't say much about it

 

 

Craig

They probably don't know themselves. In my case the 7k is basically the same and bolts into a KE (with a different sump), but it was never offered as an option. Some people said its fine cause it's the same family of engine, others said it wasn't cause it wasn't an offered upgrade in Australia, others said it was fine cause it was still within the power increase thresholds.

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

Yeah I know I got told that yeah because it's the same family and it bolts straight in and it's under power weight ratio.

 

 

Cameron Williams

Its a grey area. Technically you should get an engineers cert/modplate because a 4age is 40%+ power increase over a 4ac, and 4age sprinters ran much better brakes than ae71s. However in practice, in victoria, no one cares. Ring the rta if you want a proper yes/no answer.. and make sure you get it in writing!

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

Ok sweet thanks

 

 

Cameron Williams

Going to do this exact conversion in a few months. Ill let you know how I go

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

Alrighty sweet thank you Cameron

 

 

Jamie Bainbridge

And just for the record, a 7K into a KE2/3/5/7 is not just an engine number change, it needs to be engineered due to the capacity change.

 

 

Jamie Bainbridge

The ADRs also state that *any* increase in engine power must also accompany an acceptable increase in safety such as braking. That's very unclear an open to interpretation. If I was doing a 4AGE into an AE71, I'd get it mod plated just for piece of mind. It's only a few hundred bucks and you've then got the paperwork to prove it's legit, no worries.

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

But then u can't drive it on your p's cause it mod plated

 

 

Jamie Bainbridge

So drive it around with the 4AC for a while. Do the brakes, suspension, bushes, wheels, tyres, cooling, interior, etc. Make it a nice car to drive. Collect the bits for your conversion and be ready when you're able. There's lots more you can do to cars besides engine conversions and an old Corolla probably needs heaps of major and minor things fixed.

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

Yeah.

 

 

Ben Lugg

A mod plate cost me like 50 bucks per mod. Don't be a jew and just get it done.

 

Just saw you're on your P's. Understood if not possible.

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

I would get it done, I don't think I can drive the car a with a mod plate because I'm on my p's

 

 

Jamie Bainbridge

You might have the expectation that a 4AGE 70 will be quick, but really it's quite slow compared to many things on the street and even in amateur motorsport. You'll also be wasting most of your power if you don't have an LSD, good suspension, and good tyres. Get those sorted and you'll really enjoy driving your car, probably more than you would enjoy an otherwise stock car with an EFI conversion.

 

 

Jamie Bainbridge

Be patient, do it properly, piece by piece, and you'll have a car to truly be proud of at the end of it. Patience

 

 

Luke Adlam

It's got nothing to do with being a bolt-in unfortunately. Using Subaru as an example, all of their engines use the same mounts, so any EJ motor will bolt into any EJ car (almost every Subaru from 1990 until the BRZ), but obviously bolting an STi motor into a base model Impreza would be stupid unsafe due to the tiny brakes.

 

To avoid engineering requirements the engine you're putting in has to have been offered in THAT chassis that was SOLD IN AUSTRALIA, and you must upgrade brakes etc to match those used in the car the engine came from.

 

 

Cameron Williams

there is a grey loophole in this case.

 

very early bigport 4age's shared a bit more in common with the 4ac than later versions, ie 6 bolt crank and 3 rib block.

 

so get some high comp 4age pistons (18mm pin version) and a small port top end, and put it in/on your 4ac block.

 

that way, technically you havent changed your engine. the fuzz *could* try to get you for having too much power, but a few sneaky exhaust mods before a dyno test would ensure it passes the power increase test

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

That is good

 

 

Bronson Mercieca

Geez you sound like a dodgy bloke cameron!

 

 

Dean Heywood

OK so how will I go with 7age ( 7a with 4age head and pistons) in to ke30 2 door sedan @ 730kg in Vic?

 

 

Cameron Williams

your screwed without a engineers cert

 

 

Dean Heywood

Thought so, planned on it anyway as well as many upgrades to brakes etc

 

 

Cameron Williams

sounds awesome!

 

 

Brett Azzopardi

The 4age power is greater then the 4ac so it's classed as a performance mod so yes it will need to be plated. Will also need to be plated for the fuel system since it is now efi from carb. As for being allowed to drive it on ur p's there hasn't really been a straight up answer, as it's still within the power limits that ur allowed them in that regard u should be allowed too.

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

Thanks Brett

 

 

Ripley Newt Hicks

You need a blue plate for a 5k from a 4k. Pretty sure a 4AG from a 4AC is needed. But who knows there are P plate warrior voodoo magic happening.

 

 

Brett Azzopardi

On saying that, if u don't drive like a twat, have the car at a normal height and not to loud then u shouldn't have a problem.

 

 

Jordan Teichmann

I have a blue plate for my 5k swap

 

 

Ripley Newt Hicks

Put the engine in your car. Run the risk. Learn the outcome like the rest of us.

 

 

Drew Edward Thompson

Yeah haha.

 

 

Bonnie Thomas

Insurance companies probably look more favorably upon documentation. Food for thougt.

 

 

Ripley Newt Hicks

Insurance?

 

 

Christopher Best

I've ran a 4AGE in my Aus sprinter for like 6 months now. I get away with it by not getting pulled over.

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

I went in to the department of transport with a receipt for the engine and filled out a change of vehicle particulars form and it was done just like that.. no mod plate needed coz capacity isnt changing from factory.. still 1.6..

 

 

Joel Weiley

So true Bobby Kirkman if its a ke70 with a 4age it has to be engineered

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

That is correct Joel Weiley as its only a factory 1.3l.. a 4a (c or ge) is a 1.6l so the capacity is increased thus needing to be engineered/mod plated

 

 

Joel Weiley

If you look on the complaints plate and rego papers engine number starts with 4a123456789

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

Sorry, what? Your engin does?

 

 

Jamie Bainbridge

He's saying you can swap any 4A for any other 4A but as we discussed above that's not right.

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

In nsw or qld man? I took a 4ac out of my 71 and put a 4age into it, walked into the d.o.t with a receipt for engine and that form i mentioned earlier and it all got changed over in a matter of minutes.. they said nothing about a mod plate because the capacity hadnt changed..

 

 

Ripley Newt Hicks

Just because the idiots at DOT don't understand the law doesn't mean doing it is legal.

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

I checked the table on the qmr website that Cleary states if the capacity is the same or with in a small tolerance then a modification plate is not necessitated..

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

Ill find it and post it up man.. thats how i interpreted it anyways but yea let me know how you and others read it aswell

 

 

Cameron Williams

don't bother Bobby. ill post the NCOP rules, which applies to QLD/NSW/VIC (maybe other states, not sure) that states your wrong. Go to page 17, paragraph 1 and 2.

 

 

Cameron Williams

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP3_Section_LA_Engine_01jan2011_v3.pdf

 

 

Cameron Williams

shittest 4age is something like 40-42% power increase over the highest spec 4ac.

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

Ok cool man.. will have a read.. I'm not trying to argue or say that I'm right and your wrong.. i was just giving the information that i used and have had no issues with so far.. you can untwist your knickers now mate

 

 

Cameron Williams

trust me dude, i don't knot my jocks over facebook. however if you had done you're homework in the first place we wouldnt be having this conversation

 

 

Ripley Newt Hicks

Reading is hard Cameron, information on Facebook is easy.

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

I didnt get any info of facey man.. like i said, just offered the info on what i used as per the question.. but that link is quite helpful and clear haha.. cheers man, will now cross my fingers untill i can get it plated..

 

 

Cameron Williams

like everyone has said here, don't drive like a dick on the road, don't have an obviously unroadworthy/overly lairy looking car, and you shouldnt have a problem with the fuzz Bobby

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

Cheers dude

 

 

Ripley Newt Hicks

Most cops probably won't care but all it takes is one switched on one who just had some other wanker mouthing off at him to decide you're the person who's day he's gonna ruin.

 

 

Bobby Kirkman

Yea ya see it all too often hey man.. and once theyre on a power trip, good luck!!

Like · More · 8 minutes ago

 

 

Jamie Bainbridge

You're interested in the section LA2, specifically upgrading "Brake System" and "Occupant Safety" when increasing power more than 20% over factory. You'll notice these apply even when making changes to a stock engine, as well as a replacement engine with more power. Brake modifications have their own modification category LG. The entire code of practice for light vehicle modification is at: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb_ncop.aspx

 

 

Ripley Newt Hicks

I'm gonna cut and paste this entire thread into a post on Rollaclub so I can link it whenever someone asks.

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I knew there was a reason I never ventured into this forum.

 

Situation is not grey, it starkly black and white.

 

4AGE's of any configuration were never imported in a RWD AE chassis of any sort in Australia. Thus they require engineering in Victoria. ADR's apply Australia wide so the answer is the same anywhere else, as state registration authorities are required to ensure vehicles comply with ADR's.

 

Having an inspection at your local reg office for an engine number change is not the same as engineering, and always the onus lies with the regiistered keeper of the vehicle. The fact that all 4A engine numbers are 4Axxxxxxxxxx makes that route potentially easy, but not legal.

 

I have this in writing from the Vicroads engineering department.

 

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Nobody bothers ringing those people in the know either. Its all very clear cut as parrot sais.

 

One phone call to an engineer could have answered all those questions. Ive called a few over the years and most of them love talking about your project car and how they can help.

 

Once I get back to aus I'm going to apply to become a signatory engineer for mod plates.

Edited by ke70dave
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