benzo Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 thats proply the best advice that can be given in my opinion, well said. lol, Its not going to be 'just' a cruiser, as said I would like to take it to AIR when it opens one day for drags and skids. I would also like to have it in a few shows etc, and a rotary KE20 turns heads. Basically it will be a car that I drive when I want to have some fun. Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benzo Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 my mate has 145kw atw out of a natural bridgey 12a on standard carby. i drove it, it does 120ks in 2nd, and now i wish i lived in adelaide lol. so 200kw out of a na 13b is so easy. jay port + 52 weber = win. don't waste your time with a 4k, rotarys are so much better. why do you say you wished you lived in Adelaide. Is it anymore legal over here?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Most I've seen out of an NA 13B is 180-90, and that was PP with ITB's dual fuel etc... anyway, in Adelaide everything is legal until you get defected, as there are no yearly roadworthy's. so you jsut build whatever and then drive it . jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kE20ME Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 (edited) as jordan said... my mate is pushing somwhere around the 190 mark outta of his PP 13b and a J port would be a barstard to drive in a ke20.. it would rattle the little thing apart on idle :wink: you would be looking at 2 g alone for engine and box.. if you want 130 kw. as a decent s4/5 turbo box is 500 a motor (if it has all accessories) is around the 1000-1500 mark... especailly since you want 130 atw.. so you would be looking at a brigey or a big extend port with a webber or somthing so 1500 plus for motor easy... then hydro clutch setup, along with custom oil cooler lines, radiotor, mounts for motor and box.. your already easily in access of 3g.. and thats if you find a motor that will drop right in.. you would want a old style 13b rx4 /5 or one that has had a 12 a front cover put on, but if you decided to do this yourself more complications start.. for instance you get a s4 or 5 turbo block.. you need to swap sumps.. block up injector holes block up a heap of other shit, you will need to modify your oil pick up as well or find an old style rotor one.. if you can't find an rx4 style sump which are roughly 150 bucks or so as they are rare now.. you can modify your own eg: re drill or cut and swap turn round pan... but this all takes time and money you need custom extractors ones with a small bend.. that allow room to clear your steering box.. pending on how you mount your motor... (i have a set of these still if you decide to do it) :hmm: you also need a new exhuast and it quite hard to do as you want to get them so it goes OVER the gear box mount cause other wise it hits everything... rotary motor have exhuast ports... on oppisite side to K motors so exhuast needs to cross over under your car.. if you want to have any chance of fitting a rotor flow muffler... as you can kind of make room and mount them well in the standard muffler position the other side you have no chance as wheel well and other shit is in the way.. (i still have a complete 2.75 inch exhuast as well as the extractors to suit 13b in ke20 ) for sale ke20 diffs are alright i blew i think 3 or so of the early style diff.. no matter how well they were welded..but looking at your display pic it seems you have a 73/4 model so you should have the "pineapple" center style diff and you can lock them fairly well and i never broke one of those rear ends... but didn't drive the car for a long time while this diff was in!!! breaks are a must.. but obviosly not crucial as the car will still drive with standard ones.. just not pull up heaps well... but i mean thats a owner and a sanity thing!! you will also need coils, and wireing changed / done which isn't hard at all...farily basic thermo fan farily big one.. but skinny as there is not alot of room in there with an oil cooler rad and motor.... a decent size radiator i used a torana modified 3 core one... with modified outlets etc.. but you could use a good condition rx7 gen1 one.. or basically any thing that a decent size and you can mount there!! with the both the outlets on the same side!!!! as thats what a rotary engine requires.. and it looks dodgey if you run a massive top hose that crosses over mine was like this for a while until i had it changed!!! so much neater!! you will need a modified shifter housing on gear box to bring it back to sit somewhere reasonable in the car... otherwise it will be back near the middle of the back seats almost.... you need to (weld up the old hole) or be dodge and leave it... and then cut a new hole for new shifter tailsharft mod, just shorten it and get a mazda yoke and balance if you are keeping the corolla diff. (NOTE: 71/2 to 73/4 have different diff flanges i found this over with jordan when we swapped rear ends in my 13b ke20 from early to late model ke20's..) you need heaps of other small stuff.. such as correct clutch pin, to poke into clutch master cylinder and mounting of pin on clutch pedal (as cable ones never had it there to beguin with) accelerator cable and various other things... go onto ausrotary.com and look up / search for info on mazda 1300's and 1200 and capella's etc.. cause its basically the same thing... i know you said you can get the gear cost price.. but unless you are very good with a welder and can make up your own decent mounts, exhuast, get a motor and box real cheap and are farily mechanical minded i highly doubt you will get it in there and running for under 3g. but i mean i could be wrong.. sorry to rabble on for so long.. i was just reading the posts and thought i may as well put the info up there for everyone to see but dude go for it.. you will learn heaps... and have a good time especailly when your driving it mine span up very easily in third with the standard 12 inch tyers on the back.. and had no problem wrapping ringys... and as i am sure jordan will comment i am a fairly conservative driver.. i am sure it could have done alot more i had the whole running car for sale for like 4.g.. just funny how it was for sale for sooo long ... and now there all this talk of people wanting to do it!!! you could have had a whole running car and put all my gear in there and used the shell as parts or wrecked it or somthing.. but oh well.... guess people weren't hungry for power back then... thats another thing you'll never get your money back on these as people are hesident about buying cars that can't be insurred and are basically coffin's on wheels but power to weight you blow heaps of cars... i took out my mates sr20 turbo 180sx no dramas at all.. but a hint of advice is do it once and well.. not dodgey you want it to step up to the punishment of the drag strip and skids.. build it well... and then you will save yourself down the track!! just my 2 cents worth sorry for the really long post cheers good luck with it man henry :y: Edited August 31, 2008 by kE20ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walls ke70 Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 i used to have a s2 rx7 with a 13b jp with a 48 ida that pulled 163rwkw!! it was a pig to drive it shock the hell out of the rx7 an the noise was over the top!! if you put a 13b with a big port in a KE20 it would fall apart or get pulled over in like 10 meters from your drive way cause how loud it would be cause u can't put a small exhaust on a rota an still make good power!! On the good side it would go really really hard!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benzo Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 as jordan said... my mate is pushing somwhere around the 190 mark outta of his PP 13b and a J port would be a barstard to drive in a ke20.. it would rattle the little thing apart on idle :wink: you would be looking at 2 g alone for engine and box.. if you want 130 kw. as a decent s4/5 turbo box is 500 a motor (if it has all accessories) is around the 1000-1500 mark... especailly since you want 130 atw.. so you would be looking at a brigey or a big extend port with a webber or somthing so 1500 plus for motor easy... then hydro clutch setup, along with custom oil cooler lines, radiotor, mounts for motor and box.. your already easily in access of 3g.. and thats if you find a motor that will drop right in.. you would want a old style 13b rx4 /5 or one that has had a 12 a front cover put on, but if you decided to do this yourself more complications start.. for instance you get a s4 or 5 turbo block.. you need to swap sumps.. block up injector holes block up a heap of other shit, you will need to modify your oil pick up as well or find an old style rotor one.. if you can't find an rx4 style sump which are roughly 150 bucks or so as they are rare now.. you can modify your own eg: re drill or cut and swap turn round pan... but this all takes time and money you need custom extractors ones with a small bend.. that allow room to clear your steering box.. pending on how you mount your motor... (i have a set of these still if you decide to do it) :y: you also need a new exhuast and it quite hard to do as you want to get them so it goes OVER the gear box mount cause other wise it hits everything... rotary motor have exhuast ports... on oppisite side to K motors so exhuast needs to cross over under your car.. if you want to have any chance of fitting a rotor flow muffler... as you can kind of make room and mount them well in the standard muffler position the other side you have no chance as wheel well and other shit is in the way.. (i still have a complete 2.75 inch exhuast as well as the extractors to suit 13b in ke20 ) for sale ke20 diffs are alright i blew i think 3 or so of the early style diff.. no matter how well they were welded..but looking at your display pic it seems you have a 73/4 model so you should have the "pineapple" center style diff and you can lock them fairly well and i never broke one of those rear ends... but didn't drive the car for a long time while this diff was in!!! breaks are a must.. but obviosly not crucial as the car will still drive with standard ones.. just not pull up heaps well... but i mean thats a owner and a sanity thing!! you will also need coils, and wireing changed / done which isn't hard at all...farily basic thermo fan farily big one.. but skinny as there is not alot of room in there with an oil cooler rad and motor.... a decent size radiator i used a torana modified 3 core one... with modified outlets etc.. but you could use a good condition rx7 gen1 one.. or basically any thing that a decent size and you can mount there!! with the both the outlets on the same side!!!! as thats what a rotary engine requires.. and it looks dodgey if you run a massive top hose that crosses over mine was like this for a while until i had it changed!!! so much neater!! you will need a modified shifter housing on gear box to bring it back to sit somewhere reasonable in the car... otherwise it will be back near the middle of the back seats almost.... you need to (weld up the old hole) or be dodge and leave it... and then cut a new hole for new shifter tailsharft mod, just shorten it and get a mazda yoke and balance if you are keeping the corolla diff. (NOTE: 71/2 to 73/4 have different diff flanges i found this over with jordan when we swapped rear ends in my 13b ke20 from early to late model ke20's..) you need heaps of other small stuff.. such as correct clutch pin, to poke into clutch master cylinder and mounting of pin on clutch pedal (as cable ones never had it there to beguin with) accelerator cable and various other things... go onto ausrotary.com and look up / search for info on mazda 1300's and 1200 and capella's etc.. cause its basically the same thing... i know you said you can get the gear cost price.. but unless you are very good with a welder and can make up your own decent mounts, exhuast, get a motor and box real cheap and are farily mechanical minded i highly doubt you will get it in there and running for under 3g. but i mean i could be wrong.. sorry to rabble on for so long.. i was just reading the posts and thought i may as well put the info up there for everyone to see but dude go for it.. you will learn heaps... and have a good time especailly when your driving it mine span up very easily in third with the standard 12 inch tyers on the back.. and had no problem wrapping ringys... and as i am sure jordan will comment i am a fairly conservative driver.. i am sure it could have done alot more i had the whole running car for sale for like 4.g.. just funny how it was for sale for sooo long ... and now there all this talk of people wanting to do it!!! you could have had a whole running car and put all my gear in there and used the shell as parts or wrecked it or somthing.. but oh well.... guess people weren't hingry for power back then... thats another thing you'll never get your money back on these as people are hesident about buying cars that can't be insurred and are basically coffin's on wheels but power to weight you blow heaps of cars... i took out my mates sr20 turbo skyline no dramas at all.. but a hint of advice is do it once and well.. not dodgey you want it to step up to the punishment of the drag strip and skids.. build it well... and then you will save yourself down the track!! just my 2 cents worth sorry for the really long post cheers good luck with it man henry :P :hmm: Yeah mate I know if you remember I was extremely interested in buying your KE20 when it was for sale but my dad didnt like the idea of me having a rotary in such a light car. Now he wants to help me build a crazy engine of some sort for it. I'm looking into other options as well and will go for the best balance of cost to power. Its a pitty as well as I could've saved a lot of money if I just bought yours. Meh I suppose thats the fun of having a project car. Thanks, Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benzo Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 (edited) How much will a 130hp n/a 4K cost to build and what power would I expect at the rear wheels, and what time could it run?? Ben Edited August 14, 2007 by benzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 4K build to 130Bhp: Shot peen rods - $60each Have the crank checked, and shotpeened $191 (these 2 prices I got quoted for a 4AGE but they are both 4cly engines so the cost would be the same) Gasket kit - $180 MLS head gasket - $130 block machining (decked, 1mm over bore,) ~ $250 mild or wild cam - $300 Springs - $150 head work and port clan up - $5-700 new timing chain - $whatever it costs? New forged pistons (either high comp or low comp for turbro) - $800-900 rings/bearings - $250ish (guess) Twin solex set up - last sold on ebay for $260 or my single delorto setup for $200 inc postage or EFI Turbo setup, needing new exhaust manifold - $600, computer - $1000, most likely a new intake manifold - $500, SR20 T28 - $300 Someone to strap it together - $500 Tuning - $500 or get a turbro manifold from somewhere, strap on a T25 off a CA18DET because they're cheap, find a 1,3/4" or 2" sU carbie, and run it suck though on your standard motor. run it until it blows up, sooner or later you'll trip over another 4k, strap that in and away you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benzo Posted August 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Yeah I'm thinking either a worked 130hp N/A high compression 4K or a 4K with just minor mods with a J pipe mounted T25 almost similar to Taz RX's set up. I can get machining and engine work somewhat cheaper as a friend of my dads does all this and builds many BIG hp V8 drag cars, burnout cars etc. How much power would a 130hp N/A 4K make at the wheels? and the the T25 turboed 4K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 maybe 100BHP at the wheels, which is ~75RWkW's just to let you know that's becomming a fairly serios 4k at 100BHP/L Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolla13bt Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Just a bit of advise from my own personal experience. I had a 13b bridgey in a ke55 with 51ida webber that made about 200hp atw. But while it sounded cool, turned heads and took my license off me i hated driving it. It was an adsolute f@$kING pig. If you realy want a rota save a bit more and keep your eyeS out for a cheap s4 s5 turbo package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckie_Steve Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) Henry you are a very smart man :P listen to him, rotarys are extremely fun to drive, not a PIG like some of these people seem to think... however anything with high RWKW is not going to be easy to drive unless you go all out and do suspension and brakes etc... You need an extension housing for the gearbox though as they leave the shifter very far forward, and depending on your driving style can be quite awkward to shift :yes: It should be kept in mind however that rotarys are NEVER! any good for someone on a small budget as they are a small capacity motor that can run quite efficiently and reliably on low revs and bang for buck can't be beaten... BUT ask anyone who drives a rotary and they will tell you, you NEVER want to keep ya foot off the gas (cos it's just so fun), and they are REALLY complicated and expensive to rebuild... At the end of the day it's a matter of how much you are willing to spend MAINTAINING your car, not just converting the engine as the list of things to do never ends once you start going for over 120kw at the wheels.... Ausrotary.com is an excellent site for any questions you have for the rotary community however you have a 30 day period before you can post on that site :y: Good luck buddy :D P.S. if you want the wheels to go round and round why use a motor that goes up and down :lol: lol Edited August 20, 2007 by Luckie_Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckie_Steve Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 maybe 100BHP at the wheels, which is ~75RWkW's just to let you know that's becomming a fairly serios 4k at 100BHP/L Jordan You lose 30% of power through the driveline :P that would make a 130hp engine just over 90hp at the wheels not 100 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolla13bt Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 The best thing to do would be to by the 12AT engine, clutch, g/box, Digi1 and fuel pump i have for sale. $2000 and your away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca18rolla Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 or buy my 300rwhp ke35 coupe! pm anyone interested 30k+ spent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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