Diff Setup For Ke20

[YKE 20T]

Hey everybody just had a few questions to ask about what diffs / setups people were running in there rolla's as i'm about to fork out and get something for shortened for the rear of my ke20

 

1) what diff were people running?

 

2) is anyone running a diff with a true mechanical LSD? if so what housing are you using?

 

3) what reliability have you had from your setup?

 

4) what was your overall cost?

 

5) does anyone have anti tramp bars? or any information on their use?

 

i've been looking into using a shortened r31 skyline borgwarner with an LSD centre. the car has a ca18det in it atm. i've got a microtech and was planning on upgrading the t25 to something like a gt28rs towards the end of the year so i want my rear to handle close to 180kw at the wheels and some hard launches. i've been qouted 800 - 900 for the shortening and installation (includes stud pattern change to 4x 110 and mini spooling of the centre). what are the lsd centres for this diff like? will it cope? i would like an lsd as the car is going to be engineered and registered. i don't particullarly want spend more than $1600. all your information and feedback would be appreciated as i want to make sure i get a diff setup that will suit my application and budget.

[Jono]

1) i'm using a ke55 diff in the rear of my '20.

2) not me

3) i don't expect it to last too long when my car goes back on the road with the turbo 4age.

4) my mate re welded the mounts for me, so $0 (maybe a bourbon or two)

5) not me.

 

 

i'll hopefully do the r31 option down the track.

[styler]

iv spent hundreds of hours sussing a rear end for ke20/ke25 and i can tell you theres no easy solution!

honestly i have tried every option and each has a downfall, just choose the one with the downfall that suits you best.

i have had close on 10 different setups checked out.

 

options:

 

1) make do with the original banjo or borg diff and rebuild it (bearings, seals), rebuild diff centre (backlash, preload etc)

 

pros - cheap, good pcd/spigot/brake size

cons - weak stock diff

 

2) make do with stock diff rebuilt or not and weld centre / use spool.

 

pros - cheap, slightly stronger, good pcd/spigot/brake size

cons - axles remain weak, illegal, dangerous, no insurance.

 

3) make do with stock diff rebuilt or not and use a magic lsd insert - phantom grip, tayell automotive insert.

 

pros - cheap, semi lsd, good pcd/spigot/brake size

cons - weak, lsd is not proper lsd (it semi works but not a true lsd)

 

4) put a diff in of same width, almost bolt in and no cutting housing down and resplining axles.

cars with narrow diff = ford escort, datsun 120y, datsun 1200, alfa 105, galant, a few others...

 

pros - cheaper, no cutting diff down, some may be slightly stonger, semi lsd avalaible, only some good pcd/spigot/brake size

cons - only slightly stronger is it worth it?, no proper lsd avaliable except the alfa and escort both expensive lsds i think.

 

6) put a diff in of slightly wider width.

cars with slightly wider diff = corolla ke30 / ke55 1355mm, celica ta22 1355mm, rn10 / rn20 hilux 1370mm,

a few others...

 

pros - cheaper, almost bolt in, some have lsds avaliable, semi lsd avalaible, good pcd/spigot/brake size except hilux.

ke30 / ke55 is slightly stronger, semi lsd avaliable

ta22 is a fair bit stronger (good lsd avaliable),

hilux super strong (good lsd avaliable)

 

cons - decent lsd or rebuild costs from $500 to $1500, rear of car is wider by 50mm track this presents a

problem... ke20 rims are 12x4 +30 offset with 155/75/12 tyres. a wider diff pushes these outwards which is fine

because they clear the arch, but what happens when you get wider rims and tyres? eg 15x6 inch rims with 205/50/15

tyres? well then you get the problem of what offset to get because too low or negative offset will hit the rear arch

and a too high or positive offset will hit the struts if using matched set of rims all round, you can cut the front guard

and use a flare but the rear arch is double skinned and its more complicated to cut out the arch and use a flare but

it can be done. some people just let the wheels stick out and have mega hard suspension then every half decent

bump sends the wheels into the guard or arch pretty stupid.

ke30 / ke55 - not much stronger, lsd is not proper lsd (it semi works but not a true lsd)

ta22 - axles not huge but are stronger, good lsds avaliable, light

hilux - very heavy, can be rare or expensive, most are 6 stud and are wider.

 

5) cut down a diff to avoid the wheel fouling issue above

 

pros - you can use almost anything as it can be cut down (as long as its cut down more rather than less),

can be super strong - bigger brakes, bigger centre, thicker axles, big bearings, lsds avalaible for most diffs.

get axles resplined and pcd restudded if needed.

 

will finish later................

Edited February 28, 2008 by styler

[oh what a nissan feeling!]

the borgwarner 78 is definately the way to go, especially with the price you got quoted.

 

Make sure that the skyline diff has a 4 pin centre and 28 spline,

if not use the one out of a commodore or falcon, as the skyline or pintara gears will bolt in for a better ratio.

 

The standard lsd that comes with these diffs is the cone type, in falcons and commodores they have bad reputation.

My mate got his shimmed, and reco and burnt it out in one night.

 

On the other hand, i have the cone type lsd in mine shimmed up real tight,

it has been raped real hard for over two years and never ever has spun one wheel because of the light weight of the car.

 

If you like to go sideways in powerslides, try to avoid the locker, they can spear you of the road real quick.

 

For tramp bars make up a set of caltracs, real easy and work brilliant, there are cars running 8's on caltracs.

Edited February 26, 2008 by oh what a nissan feeling!

[MRMOPARMAN]

borg warner 78's are good strong diffs once built up, and theres heaps of different stud pattern and brake options available, but i still wouldnt go for one simply because of the bullshit LSD's in them.

 

i believe kaaz make lsd's for them now, although they would be mega pricey.

 

don't go a locker for a street car, if the cops catch ya they'll make ya bend over

 

what ever diff you get, it will need to be shortened.. i reckon a toyota 'F' or 'G' series would be the go, or a nissan H190.

[YKE 20T]

I had pretty much figured that whatever diff i used it was going to need shortening. my gut feeling was i would end up going with the borgwarner. i'll look into the kaaz lsd a i would prefer a mechanical lsd but worsecase scenario i'lle use the cone type and see how it holds out. the borgwarner out of the r31 is the cheapest disc rear i have access to. my local wreckers qouted me 250. this included dics calipers and the handbrake cable. i was wondering what offerings nissan had. do they have any live axle diffs that take the r180 or r200 centres?

Edited February 26, 2008 by YKE 20T

[philbey]

Have a read up on 910bluebird.com about those R31 borg warners, those boys know a bit about them.

 

Never heard of anyone crossbreeding an r180 or r200 into a solid diff. Interesting idea.

 

Something I have been thinking of lately is getting a custom Torsen LSD centre for a commonly available corolla rear. There's a company in melbourne called Modena Engineering and a mate of mine was getting them to build torsen centres for R180's. Absolutely unbreakable diff.

 

It might be worth giving them a yell and asking them what diffs they can make their centres for or how much it would cost for a custom etc.

[LINDSAY]

G'day tristan , $1150 for R31 disc brake rear end , cut down and installed , WHERE CAN I GET THIS DONE !!! thats pretty good price man ,

i've heard $2500 without supplying the diff quoted by someone on another forum not too long ago

[YKE 20T]

have done a bit of searching and can't find anything on a live axle r180/200 which is a shame caus there tuff as nails. spoke to the diff bloke and he says that because the 20 is so light that the cone type lsd will be fine. he's done a couple of big power fj20 datsun 1200 utes that i have seen around canberra and only used the cone type and they havent come back yet. there is a kaaz mechanical lsd available for the borgwarner 78. for a 1 way its $1500. i gues i'll try the cone type and if i smash it too easily i can fork out the dough for the kaaz.

[4DRFRK]

Something I have been thinking of lately is getting a custom Torsen LSD centre for a commonly available corolla rear. There's a company in melbourne called Modena Engineering and a mate of mine was getting them to build torsen centres for R180's. Absolutely unbreakable diff.

 

It might be worth giving them a yell and asking them what diffs they can make their centres for or how much it would cost for a custom etc.

 

modena are great i ran one of there lsd's in my swift gti drag car it coped shitloads of punishment both racing and plain out abusing (skids skids) i did close on 40 xxxkms with it in and sold the car , lsd still going strong (fwd tho **thumbs down**)

[YKE 20T]

mate i'll probably be getting it done by southern diffs in the act as my mate has had work done thre and said good things. 900 - 1000 for the cut down, install, respline, (needs resplinig as the axles will be getting shortened. also becuase of the light weight of the 20 he has no qaulms about reusing the stocko akle's and not using custom billets) and the stud pattern change. its around 500 for the lsd centre and i'm looking at 220 to 250 for the diff with everything from the wreckers. seems to be failry good value. i also got a similar qoute from m&a engineering in the act.

[LINDSAY]

still $1500 - $1700 is pretty good

[YKE 20T]

modena are great i ran one of there lsd's in my swift gti drag car it coped shitloads of punishment both racing and plain out abusing (skids skids) i did close on 40 xxxkms with it in and sold the car , lsd still going strong (fwd tho **thumbs down**)

 

 

tell me about it. i got my first taste of turbo power in a spastik 89 mx6 turbo. 178kw at the front wheels. had custom manifold,cooler EMS computer and an hi flowed IHI off a rexy. was good fun but couldnt get the power to the ground and who wants power on understeer. plus i went through 1 motor 2 gearboxes 1 pair of driveshafts and a very expensive daikin clutch.

Edited February 26, 2008 by YKE 20T

[YKE 20T]

still $1500 - $1700 is pretty good

 

it would apear that its a good value package. i just wanted to make sure somebody wasnt running a better value package before i hand over my hard earnt dough. i've been burnt before ( read EMS computer on mx6. big waste of money. a shit to tune didnt hold tune and fried two circut boards randomly).

Edited February 26, 2008 by YKE 20T

[YKE 20T]

heres the money bucket mx6. we had a love hate relationship. i once got 7 months out of it with out something breaking or shitting its self.

Edited February 26, 2008 by YKE 20T