coln72 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 G'day all, Just thought I'd post here a question that I have. I know all you knowledgable and not so knowlegable people will have an answer. As some of you may know i am involved in building and running Energy Efficient Vehicles in a 24hr event (795km on 2 litres of fuel last year). Now that E85 is available, any new vehicle built must run on the stuff this year and every vehicle has to next year. I'd like to get the jump on everyone else so I want to start testing the stuff to see; a. if a 35cc Honda will run on the stuff b. how much more I am expected to use c. what I have to change to stop it melting things. So if anyone has played with the stuff in small motors, could you give me any pointers. Am about to hit google, but I find much of it B.S. :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerhead Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Exactly the same as running methanol, but ethanol is less corrosive. You need a brass float in the carby if its plastic. Holden claim for E85 you should run nickel plated steel fuel lines rather than aluminium, so get rid of any ally lines, brass will work there too. There are different grade silicone O-rings for the fuel system too, as standard has been known to perish faster. If you're only running for 24 hours I doubt a plastic float will fail in the carby in that time, don't quote me on it though :lolcry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kangaroosa Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) I used it in the Rotorolla when going through emissions testing. - You have to run bigger jetting - I just drilled the mains about 0.3mm bigger. It was driveable enough to pass (i wasnt too fussed on making peak HP as it was just to pass testing) - You will burn approx 1/3 more fuel than ULP - You have to advance the timing - The E85 flogged out the rubber seals in my fuel pump and regulator. Most people I know of actually get more power if they have the car tuned specifically for E85 over ULP. However you use 1/3 more fuel for the same mileage, which in my opinion outweighs the cheaper cost of E85. So i'm not too sure its the perfect fuel to use for an economy race. Sure you get more power and its cheaper to fill up......but you will run out of fuel 1/3 sooner than ULP. I've always meant to trawl youtube for V8 Supercar Footage from the past. These days you always hear them talk about fuel burn per lap and how far the tank will get them before they have to pit. I'm interested to see how many laps they could stretch a full tank of Premium fuel compared to the E85 they use these days. Thats the kind of real life testing and data that will have the least 'bullcrap exaggeration' in it. Edited February 25, 2011 by kangaroosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerhead Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 On boosted car's I'd agree with more HP from E85. But there was a toymods member who spent $5K on a purpose built a 15:1 comp E85 beams atmo motor and it made 1 extra HP and used 40% more fuel than the lower comp motor with the same head. He said you could keep winding the timing advance past 45deg and the motor wouldn't ping, but it didn't make any extra power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coln72 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Unfortunately we don't have a choice. We are looking to build a new vehicle this year for a class that has just been introduced and we have to run E85. At least they give us 5 litres instead of the 3 we get currently.... Need to do some testing I guess as all of our fuel lines are plastic :| and we are running a diaphram carby not a float type carby, so the float is not an issue but I am thinking the diaphram might be........ :hmm: If I go hunting, I am sure I could dig up some carbies off bigger Honda to mix and match something that works. Guess I will be able to up the compressipon though :jamie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kangaroosa Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) On boosted car's I'd agree with more HP from E85. But there was a toymods member who spent $5K on a purpose built a 15:1 comp E85 beams atmo motor and it made 1 extra HP and used 40% more fuel than the lower comp motor with the same head. He said you could keep winding the timing advance past 45deg and the motor wouldn't ping, but it didn't make any extra power. Agreed. I was referring to 13BT's and the like. Although id like to see more than one example of E85 not making more power in NA situations. I've never really researched alot of street cars using E85. For me it was just a stop gap solution to my problem. I'm keen to hear more on the topic. Col - Good news about the extra fuel. I guess they have taken the extra fuel burn into consideration. I should add that i was running a nikki carby with paper seals and they were fine. The rubber in the regulator diaphragm and Holley carby lasted about 2 months or 4 tanks of fuel. So you may not have to worry about investing too much money in stuff that wont fail if you only need it to last 24hrs. Edited February 25, 2011 by kangaroosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coln72 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Thats the risk, what do you leave and hope cuase I have done that in the past and it has come a long and ripped me a new one :bash: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The answer to- b. how much more I am expected to use surely is..... they give us 5 litres instead of the 3 we get currently.... "Why" is the real question... there is enough oil to run the place without everyone rushing off to grow corn and turn it into fuel. Within 20years solar will be far more efficient than it is, nuclear reactors will be being built again and if we are really lucky there will be a breakthough in cold fusion. So why the hell would they want us to use so much of a second-rate fuel?? Keeping the good stuff for the military are they?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerondownunder88 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 So why the hell would they want us to use so much of a second-rate fuel?? Keeping the good stuff for the military are they?? Hi, They sure are leeping the good stuff for military and I can tell you now it will also perish the rubber and other parts in your car..LOL Cameron P.S. kangaroosa what regulator were you using when the E85 ate through it? I have a holly reg and want my car ready for ethanol so might be shopping time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coln72 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Dunno, guess the organisors want to look green, so they are forcing us to run it eitherthis year or next. Even making electric powered teams jump onto a heap of pedal generators to put back what they use to charge there batteries back into the grid..... At least they can use mains power now, previously that was banned so they had to use a heap of solar panels.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerhead Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Cold fusion is a proven process. Will cost 3 trillion dollars, but a US company admitted they have perfected the technology in 1999 and didn't release any information until 2009 when they had created an economically viable process. Get on ted.com if you don't believe me. The answer to- surely is..... "Why" is the real question... there is enough oil to run the place without everyone rushing off to grow corn and turn it into fuel. Within 20years solar will be far more efficient than it is, nuclear reactors will be being built again and if we are really lucky there will be a breakthough in cold fusion. So why the hell would they want us to use so much of a second-rate fuel?? Keeping the good stuff for the military are they?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kangaroosa Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 P.S. kangaroosa what regulator were you using when the E85 ate through it? I have a holly reg and want my car ready for ethanol so might be shopping time. Holley as pictured. It started weeping from the rubber gasket thats also part of the diaphragm. The Diaphragm itself was also very worn....just really stressed and worn out. I also used a Speco dial one that i had lying around to get me by. That also weeped from under the turn dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy43 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I used to flush out the fuel system with Petrol, After running methanol as it used to eat everything. Carbys will need more than just jetting up, air bleads and so on need up sizing as well. timing can be advanced a bit more. I'd guess ethanol is simlar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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