LittleRedSpirit Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Agreed. I just wish I had a cage so I could be more aggressive with weight reduction. I think the 2 most valid areas initially to pull weight from are the rotating wheels and tyres and anything up high that would raise the centre of gravity. Perhaps the most valuable mod to lower the cars cog would be to replace glass with lexan as you TRD blokes have just done. I'd really like to do this if I was not on the roads. The battery thing is a big one too, I did consider buying something more lightweight, but then I decided I wanted amps for the electronics and to flick my starter fast so I went with a ridiculously big unit instead. I think in the other shell I will try and make it a lot more sportier for the bigger motor. That means start with a cage I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irokin Posted August 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Ben, and you know that I mean this in the nicest possible way, don't worry about it and concentrate on driving faster. There's more in you to go faster than there is in things like this. :) lol I was waiting for that :P and I agree... but... Part of the enjoyment I get out of this is the challenge of thinking about how different things affect the car, regardless of whether I actually act on the thought. I accept that my knowledge and skills aren't ever going to come close to a professional race engineer but neither do the skills of most golfers (to professional golfers, not race engineers :P). That doesn't stop them fiddling with their clubs or balls or whatever because they enjoy it. Does it actually improve their performance for their skill level? Probably not and I accept the same for my situation. Doesn't take the fun out of it though. Thanks for the reply Chris. Teddy's explained your weight reduction ethos to me before and I love it :P I had to replace the battery and free up some space so I've got a odyssey dry cell that's going in the rear passenger footwell. It's only about 1-2kg lighter but moving 10kg from in front of the axle to behind is pretty good I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Get that radiator out of the front end too! or can you fab up one as wide and low as the front bumper? Keen enough for a dry sump?? IRS conversion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Carry on then. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irokin Posted August 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Get that radiator out of the front end too! or can you fab up one as wide and low as the front bumper? Keen enough for a dry sump?? IRS conversion? I had (still have) a Predator/PWR cooler and radiator setup that pulled everything inboard but the thing was cumbersome to make work for something sold as "bolt on". I got tired of trying to make it work with my cooling system so I went back to a conventional setup but with a smaller and lighter intercooler. It'd have to be half the weight of the old one which had cast aluminium pipes coming off the intercooler so at least something was achieved. Predator setup looks like this: Probably suit a drag car better with the radiator/cooler sizes. Just ended up going in the "bad idea" pile. Just found a shot of my front setup and helped me confirm my choice of 235/45s. Can you imagine how far 255/40s would stick out... Old photos, still got Cusco "suspension" :blinks: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 look at that big solid disc... just waiting to be cross-drilled with a thousand holes! Nice wheels! We laid the radiator down at 45deg from the engine cross-member upwards to the front chassis crossmember and fed it from an airdam on the engine crossmember. We'd moved the motor back a foot so there was plenty of room. That was all part of a big process where we lightened the car savagely and while it was faster on the gravel it lost all the accelerating traction it had. So we moved the motor back and.... on it went.. creating new problems while solving old ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irokin Posted August 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Made by BBS for Nissan, somewhere around 9-10kg :D Interestingly the 18 inch R34 GTR rims (also made by BBS) are about a kilo lighter again. I've got GTR slotted rotors to replace them. Don't really want to cross drill as they always seem to start cracks. They've got a reduced number of cooling vanes so should be slightly less weight. Unfortunately I don't have a scale that goes high enough to compare the weights. Here's a good page I came across and completely forgot to post, has some interesting data or caliper and disk weights: http://www.hotwheels.com.sg/products/tarox/brake%20weights.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonboy Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Part of the enjoyment I get out of this is the challenge of thinking about how different things affect the car, regardless of whether I actually act on the thought. I accept that my knowledge and skills aren't ever going to come close to a professional race engineer but neither do the skills of most golfers (to professional golfers, not race engineers :P). That doesn't stop them fiddling with their clubs or balls or whatever because they enjoy it. Does it actually improve their performance for their skill level? Probably not and I accept the same for my situation. Doesn't take the fun out of it though. You could not have said it any better! :D Maybe some things have a 'placebo' effect... Say for instance, you fiddle with your suspension settings, the car may not actually handle any better or go any faster directly because of this. But, because in your mind you "know" that the car will now be faster, you could actually drive faster because of an increase in confidence rather than performance? Could removing weight & therefore increasing the mathematical power to weight ratio could have the same effect on the brain? :wink: I am not attempting to be a psychiatrist, just thinking out aloud. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 . Don't really want to cross drill as they always seem to start cracks. Quoted for the MF truth. Have an associate changing the rotors on his GT3 ATM for precisely that reason. These puppies have only had limited use (abuse) too. This is a well known side effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irokin Posted August 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I absolutely think there's always some level of psychological effect. I remember hearing stories from a suspension engineer that they'd get drivers to come in, make some magic adjustment aka NOTHING and suddenly the cars faster. I also remember a doco on a Le Mans team (Creation Auto) where their hired driver spent all day buggerising around with the suspension setup and at the end of the practice session they put the setup back to where they started and suddenly the car was brilliant and everything was fixed and the lap times tumbled. There's a whole industry of crap products that do nothing and work only on a psychological level. Fuel 'catalysts' and swirly intakes anybody? Or topic related, garbage 'roll center adjusters' that don't change the pivot and just push the control arm away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonboy Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) Quoted for the MF truth. Have an associate changing the rotors on his GT3 ATM for precisely that reason. These puppies have only had limited use (abuse) too. This is a well known side effect. Amen! :yes: How much are those GT3 brakes (carbon-ceramic rotor's?) worth to replace roughly? Not cheap I'd imagine! Remove meat from rotor, remove heatsink ability... & give cracks somewhere to start :P There's a whole industry of crap products that do nothing and work only on a psychological level. Fuel 'catalysts' and swirly intakes anybody? Or topic related, garbage 'roll center adjusters' that don't change the pivot and just push the control arm away. :blinks: So you mean my fuels hyper-oxygenator additive & TURBO air-filter don't actually help? :wink: Edited August 3, 2011 by carbonboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRedSpirit Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 What about my jdm voltage stabiliser? I'm sure it creates 9.756 sae hp according to my ass dyno. :laff: :bash: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan G Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 garbage 'roll center adjusters' that don't change the pivot and just push the control arm away. PLEASE explain some more on your comment? my 55 has around 3 degrees of neg camber. 2 inch lower and falcon springs. LCA are dead flat. it tends to understeer into hard corners but stays on track. i was under the impression that its caused from flat lca's and putting rca will push down the control arm and fix the geometry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irokin Posted August 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Moving the control arm alone wont do anything. The invisible geometry (line between outer and inner pivot points of the control arm) is exactly the same and all you've achieved is changing the angle of the control arm. You might solve bump steer doing this but the roll center wont change. You need to move the pivot itself further away vertically. Most of the Toyota RCA blocks work perfectly fine. The problem is with the Nissans because you can't just insert a block. The steering knuckle and spindle are one unit, so you need to increase the shaft length of the balljoint. Exhibit A: The first 2 are exactly the same, you're just moving the control arm away and the pivot stays in the same spot. #3 might have a slight shaft length increase but #4 is the only one that's going to work properly. Alternatively you can get radical, cutting and welding the knuckle itself. Bit iffy in my mind though. I'm not a suspension engineer but that's the way I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUZ440 Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Very interesting read this boys, alot of information, and some further thought when i throw mine around the track, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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