rian Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hey forum, I'm looking at building a new set of coilovers for my KE70. I eventually want to use the car as a track car for some sort of racing (not drifting). My current set-up is too stiff (8kg/SW20 KYB AGX inserts), and I've heard Bilsteins are the way to go. So I'm wondering if anyone on here has fitted Bilsteins inserts into AE86 struts, and what make/model was the insert intended for? At current I'm trying to find suitable inserts, and the Bilstein B6(sport) ST185 celica insert is sort of looking promising. Although, I am finding variations in part numbers listed for the ST185, and there seems to be a few different suspension set-ups among the ST185s such as All-Trac, superstrut, McPherson strut etc. The Bilstein catalogue list the ST185 4WD as having the insert part number: P30-0352 (I'm guessing this is the All-Trac model?) The local Supercheap Auto seem the think the ST185 Bilstein insert has part number: R305028 (and their catalogue only lists part numbers for fronts inserts, are the rears the same part numbers?) And now my final question, I know a lot of people use the ST185 insert in modified AE86 struts, but does anyone know if it's the front inserts or rear inserts, or better still, does anyone know the dimensions for either? Are they the same part? Thanks, Rian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7shades Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 86coupe up here recently did this... Had some glandular issues resolved with a much cursing and a lathe. I shall send him a link to this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rian Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Very much appreciated 7shades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Put softer springs in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampgarage Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Hi Rian, The ones I used are a B6 from a celica. There's two numbers on the box 34-003527, and P30-0352. The gland nut that comes with them has a course thread that won't fit your fine threaded ae86 struts. Your stock gland nut won't fit because the bilsteins are humongous. As a temporary fix, I've bored out the stock gland nuts and made a bush to hold the bilsteins snugly. The bilstein gland nut also has a dust seal on it. Not sure how critical this is, but they are not cheap shocks and I'd hate to ruin them. Correct gland nuts can be ordered, but have been quoted up to $128 and a few weeks wait. Haven't driven the car yet, but they feel pretty stiff. Have to be better than the random assortment of blown TRD shocks that were in my car when I bought it! Edited August 9, 2011 by 86coupe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 very excellent information 86coupe. to the OP, id throw those 8kg in the bin, get some 4-5. you may find its much better even without the bilsteins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yep. It's all about matching your spring rates to your damper setting. Your inserts should be fine, but the spring is way to hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rian Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) parrot: I was planning on doing that, I just realised I forgot to include it in the original post for some reason. I know you are using SW20 AGXs in your struts, what spring rate are you using and what are your thoughts on the combo? I thought the AGXs were super stiff, I could barely compress them by hand on the softest setting, much stiffer than the R31 Skyline inserts I had in there previously. 86coupe: Awesome! That shaft is huge, so you had to bore the hole in the stock gland nut for the shaft to fit through, but the stock gland nut fitted over the Bilstein damper body without modification? (other than having to bore the hole for the shaft) Thanks very much for the info and pictures. Where did you order them from and how much did you pay if you don't mind me asking? Supercheap said they could get them for around $330ea($250ea if you know the right person) but I'm not sure they were the correct ones, they had a different part number but were supposedly for the ST185. Dave: I was going to go for a 5kg spring/coilover sleeve combo from T3, and was going to build up new coilovers while the current ones are still in the car, but I guess I could just buy the sleeve kit and run the 5kg springs on the current coilovers while I build the new ones and then just swap my AGXs into the new ones when they're finished. I am quite interested in trying out the Bilsteins though, I bet they're awesome. Thanks for the replies everyone! Edited August 10, 2011 by rianwest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampgarage Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I had to bore out the hole to fit the tube, but also, that silver ring inside the gland nuts is all that remains of the gland nuts that came with the bilsteins. The stock nuts didn't hold them tightly enough, so I turned down the useless bilstein nuts in the lathe until they fit inside the stock ones! I bought them from GSL Rallysport for $295 each. AJPS can also get them. He can apparently get the correct gland nuts for a decent price too. I'm using a ~4.8kg/mm spring, but only because that's what were on the coilovers when I got them. I have 8kg springs in my road car and they really make you appreciate the better maintained bits of bitumen. Will most likely be swapping those springs into the track car to go with the bilsteins. Can't wait to try them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rian Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I see what you mean now about the gland nuts, I didn't see the bush thing the first time. That seems like a good price too. Thanks very much for the information, this should be a good thread for anyone looking to do this conversion, there's solid info here. Also what are peoples opinions on ~5kg front springs? Good for a grippy track set-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy-Yoda[RL] Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 According to the Bilstein downloadable .pdf catalogue there is an AE86 Specific model of the B8 Sprint insert. Part numbers and all the codes they give mean nothing to me, so here's a link to the website the catalogues are on the right hand sidebar. Might help, I dunno..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I see what you mean now about the gland nuts, I didn't see the bush thing the first time. That seems like a good price too. Thanks very much for the information, this should be a good thread for anyone looking to do this conversion, there's solid info here. Also what are peoples opinions on ~5kg front springs? Good for a grippy track set-up? whatever springs you chose, i suggest you take the shocks to a suspension place and get them valved for your car and spring rate. bilsteins are completely rebuildable. i would start with 5kg if i did it again, i had 6kg, and it was verging on being too stiff, though i can't really compare as i didnt have bilstein shocks, bilstiens are renound for being the most comfortable shock, no harsh impacts. i would love to try a set one day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rian Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 According to the Bilstein downloadable .pdf catalogue there is an AE86 Specific model of the B8 Sprint insert. Part numbers and all the codes they give mean nothing to me, so here's a link to the website the catalogues are on the right hand sidebar. Might help, I dunno..... Thanks for the input, although the only problem with the AE86 insert is that I would have to retain almost standard height. I was after a shorter stroke shock(something like ST185 ~ 330mm inserts, as opposed to AE86 ~400mm inserts) so that the car could be lowered and still have good suspension travel, I'll be converting to adjustable height coilovers anyway so I thought I may as well go for a shorter insert while I'm at it. whatever springs you chose, i suggest you take the shocks to a suspension place and get them valved for your car and spring rate. bilsteins are completely rebuildable. This is what I wanted to do eventually and that was the reason I though Bilsteins would be a good choice, but it's probably getting a bit expensive and unnecessary at this point considering I haven't actually been on a track yet. Since Dave has made this point, has anyone ever had Bilsteins or any other shock rebuilt/re-valved/tuned? I'm guessing it's an expensive exercise. Also 5kg/mm springs is probably what I'm going to get, unless there is a good reason to use a different spring rate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 The thing about shock valving, is its based on maths, not necessarily your experience or track time. so sort of those 'get it set once, and forget about it' type issues. admittedly its being a bit pedantic for a street car, they will probably be pretty good out of the box....but i dunno i guess if your spending $600 on shocks, best to get them set properly? also if you buy the shocks through a decent suspension shop, they might do you a good deal on valving them before they they give them to you. maybe give these guys a ring? http://www.extrememotorsports.com.au/extreme-race-suspension/shock-absorber-services-4.html there are a few rally guys on here, maybe they will have some 1st hand experience on costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Sorry Rian I can't comment on my combo as has not been on the road in that config yet. I arbitrarily bought some 6kg fronts but am expecting I may need to go a bit softer. If you use the T3 spacers, (which incorporates the correct gland nut thread to suit the AGX's) you should be able to get pretty low without bottoming them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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