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Banjo

Toothed Trigger Wheel

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Has anyone ever used one of these crankshaft pulley trigger wheels, available on ebay Australia, from a seller in Victoria ?

image.thumb.png.353bb9e4dcbd2ddcc8dbff0b99938121.png

They are specifically made for 3K 4K engines.  Listing on ebay, indicates they have other tooth patterns available, beside the 12 - 1 one depicted here.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Toyota-K-Motor-12-1T-Crank-Trigger-Wheel-3K-4K-5K-12-1-Tooth-EFI-Corolla-Starlet/114155439025?hash=item1a9431c3b1:g:UaYAAOSwHwRedLXC

Really interested in the quality of them ?  Price is OK.

Cheers Banjo

 

Edited by Banjo

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I have contacted the ebay seller in Victoria, & he has advised, they have 12:1 & 36:1, ex stock, for the 3K/4K/5K motors, both at the same price.   They have also previously made a 24:2 one for the 3K/4K/5K motor, so can cut another one, without issue.  They are also prepared, to cut any preferred custom arrangement.

The nice thing about all these, is that they come with mounting screws etc. & it will bolt straight up to the 3K/4K/5K crankshaft pulley.

Anyone that is interested, should hop on the ebay listing, & contact the seller.

Cheers Banjo

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Looks pretty neat. what sensor do they use?

Basically the same as what is on my bmw m20, except mine has 60 tooth (with 2 missing. 

I would try and use an OEM sensor of some kind. VR seems to be the most common and easiest to run, but hall effect is an option as well (needs power i think, ive no experience with hall effect)

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Variable Reluctance (VR) sensors are two (2) wire, & do not require power.  However, they are amplitude dependent on RPM, & can suffer from interference.  They need "signal conditioning" (squaring up), before being fed to most ECUs.  Hall Effect sensor, is the way to go.

https://fullfunctioneng.com/info/Hall vs VR.pdf

There are plenty of generic Hall Effect types around, that can easily be adapted to the K Series engine, with a simple bracket off the engine block.

image.png.068c0dd73b083f5145939a839ea4440d.png

This one on ebay is a tubular threaded / adjustable one, & is less than $ 15.

There are two (2) spare mounting holes on the K Series block, where the A/C compressor bracket goes.  (exactly the same as the alternator one, on the other side of the engine)

They would be ideal, & are in the right area.

Cheers  Banjo

 

Edited by Banjo

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I have contacted the ebay seller, in Melbourne, who is producing these trigger wheels for the 4K engine.  He is supplying me one with a 36:1 configuration, which I should have later this week.

I had a quick look at the crankshaft pullies I have floating around my shed for 3K, 4K, & 5K engines.   The 3K & 4K, appear to be all the same, at about 110mm in O.D.

The 5K pullies are larger in diameter, at around 125mm O.D.  I even found one 5K pulley, with a harmonic balancer built in ?

I'll have a quick play, later today, to ensure the 3K/4K I.D., is the same dimension, as the 5K pulley, as I may want to fit it to the 5K engine also on my engine test bed, to experiment a bit.

The water pump/fan pullies I have on the shelf all seem to be the exact same O.D. at around 140mm.

If that is the case, then on 5K engines presumably, the water pump, & maybe alternator; ran at slightly higher RPM.

Have never investigated pulley sizes previously, & was wondering if anyone on here, has gone through this exercise before ?

I can only presume, that because the 5K was used on Toyota commercial van & forklifts etc., that they needed extra fan & water pump RPM, to improve cooling ?

Cheers

Banjo

 

Edited by Banjo

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hey banjo, 

    i would be interested on your thoughts on the quality of the trigger wheel. if you give it a thumbs up then i might order one as well, 

 

cheers

G

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Hi Geoff,

               Certainly will let you know.

Cheers Banjo

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Hi all

I'm the ebay seller

 

Heres a better photo of my setup. I run a 12-1 with the a ZF Cherry Red Hall Sensor. The sensor is about $40 on digikey or element14.

I've done about 15000kms with this setup running a Speeduino ECU and quad throttles. Great fun!

The wheels themselves are laser cut from 6mm mild steel so they don't look as nice as CNC machined ones.

So far I've made 12-1, 24-1 and this week 36-1 patterns.

 

myXTTEe3WXv6EqPaEJ_22W5DLCKS8-S-04x9i0KfVnpCrwVt05z7qQ-gu6fXpbkFmQWWo1aJ6LNZdKltxw2W7dfgvEgL5meCckTkmdAGYQ8bfCppYiC8f4q60_w4-h6rC-8VYbgRvmrG3Kz6sMNNb1cQGu6FBPWoAm9U_q1Om_a1v4ifIwRoF_zBHalMclT6HT3m6X9VjIq1xbzLqvi8ORd-nj8ijaFuGjnW-kbRpS4VCGbWRrn6Mp8eTj6PhN2AWH_pPg2RNnUYq4xflWeEoL5rBjOpQW571D-6ub7S09lqCvS-ZCwCpkWBfhC-iwmJFJ6lFznLT_Sg_AxwADUYMZVX7Rj0sAZnIGWa1AkVXMZymgf3RcNV4EhB-F78dVMN1RBgVmqxI9tWBWY9QvvFSNSC4mtkPGq2wYgRP5MLPZcS3VADrX7fDMOANgV4WtNgd9wqlAwJXmYVMHJ0pZST2ao9hM8IrqF6mDuuZcdC3DREI0J3PSIviIoyf4wAOHpDo7P6iZ6WBYV3yeKHiOskaOSPSmtgzkzc9Zkvt2RDChFzcWcW8oC1FT2C4T8bcDBmU1dDp1-_Hn74m2ATa6WUKll6EvnTbJs-AC2SzfSvBG54B-C0Z0ZuzY42-PpYe0g345KL9sbusiiTl9KCz1IGJmx7I0V0VcTBd9JpLYCd7qQEh_UeSr-_NSuWLR-pn5A=w1227-h920-no?authuser=0

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Hi Daniel,

                Thanks for that larger photo !   I suggested in this thread earlier, that an ideal point to mount the Hall Sensor bracket, would be to two (2) mounting points, on the lower front edge of the 4K block, where the A/C mounting bracket was attached.  Looks like you might have used those holes also.

Could you provide us with a picture from the side, so that it depicts the whole bracket assembly ?

Thanks !

Banjo

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Hi Banjo

 

Sure thing. Yes those are the 2 holes i used for the bracket. The bracket is just a kinked bit of steel angle.

 

Cheers

Daniel

3K58meKcyBhWaTxsqwTEvtP_v1IOLCQW99qg1bnu-lZR_3bHeE7AdoV71Q0BdgzbVzFUn-9Syf6DyzxlgfHzBQPaoC_39TKKvzD9URi8OPpfdUv3t07cxAyiOxYcPmPtVcjypkOY59sghMKlR2BfFJmJ4P78_WeV-bhUTM5lz7pB88wIG0J8nLUnPD5J7UQ6qCj4FFSG4Q0Z7T5Tse9608DuQImtR7UUp7yH6FtwvDzAAqwovm9ph_avUhYUPlK5WGarFSU2_zHGa16eZ2j7edX3gDBT4KqCBaQW9xzYGHz9jdZyDVDZxb__k57JQSj5TcROxi13LtxScIU8TCmXpp5yfwfISktZXhajrXTygIpZw80T0N_cpqN6ISpD-fUXJRQgUBT7gHwEMNEzm2CtEAfOvRX5qQe2Y1sNx3Uzz58WAgO3bE_kc0yS41hh6MTmNPHn0ZrpAZA4ESlkaPw512yU8eVYZUxg3sjMmYpghUi0Vl26jFEyT1Jbz2bon8ZkxMFTprQZ9VU7S32EsLWHA39e8Mn-24U0P7qLIeyJSKJxRG7S1uw-V1jorT47yV5rU4ztBvkRiTYEWP-De8EQg7Mkc6bGPc9Ea3tB1EX7mEbGY5z2dO3XGEsak0qlWxNwHCdm6A0-2E3g1Whij6nRB6g3SYn_etAEqVoXPL2OVedP8pGK7ij1FatO6QkmeZs=w1227-h920-no?authuser=0

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Hi Daniel,

                  Beautiful picture !  Thanks.  What model Speeduino board are you using ?  The V0.3 or V0.4 PCB ?

I've got a V0.37 kit, which I put together at the end of last year, but haven't had a chance to test, or hook it up, until this horrible COVID-19 thing, slowed us all up.

I've actually got it running on the bench right now, & testing all the inputs & outputs using Studio Tuner, with latest firmware.

I presume you are running your Speeduino in "distributor" mode, or have you got 4 off seperate coils, or maybe 2 off coils & waste spark ?

What sort of enclosure did you put your Speeduino in, & where did you mount it ? Under the bonnet, or under the dash, inside somewhere ?  The V0.37 board doesn't seem to have enough mounting holes in the boards, to mount it securely.  Would be interested how you fared with yours, whereas the V0.4 seems to be specifically designed for an enclosure.

If there any other Rollaclub members, who have used a Speeduino successfully, you might like to add your thoughts, in this thread.  Love to hear from you.

One of the advantages of "machined" trigger wheels, is, that if they are centred perfectly, the gap between the Hall sensor tip, & the end of each tooth, is pretty precise.

Have you rotated your laser cut ones, & measured the clearance with the sensor tip with a feeler guage to see what variation you obtained ?

Sorry about all the questions, but I hope to have it up & running, as soon as I receive the 36:1 trigger wheel next week.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

 

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Hey Banjo

I have the V04 from memory. Running in distributor mode and batch injection. I use a single coil and ignitor from a Mitsubishi Magna (scrapyard find).

I used an old Nissan Silvia ecu case, plug and loom which I had in the spare parts bin. Mounted under the carpet in the passenger footwell.



You're correct, there isnt really a good way to mount it and I'm not happy with it currently. All the extra connections (board to board connector, board to header wires etc) make me nervous. My next project is to lay out the speeduino and arduino on one PCB specifically for a sealed automotive grade enclosure with a right angle header. Below is the target enclosure (It's only 12 pin but thats enough for me).

 

Amazon.com: Deutsch DTM 24 Contact PCB Circuit Board Enclosure Kit ...

 

I havent measured the run out on the laser cut wheels (laser cutter generally claims 0.2mm edge tolerance, however the edge on laser cut parts is always somewhat tapered).

 

Daniel

 

 

 

IMG_20190928_114214.jpg

IMG_20200322_075625.jpg

 

 

Edit : By the way Banjo I meant to take a photo of the 36-1 wheel but I was in a mad rush to get it to the post box 🤦‍♂️. Would you be able to send a picture of it when recieved? It would be greatly appreciated! 

Edited by Danel

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Hi Daniel,

                 I'll certainly take a few pics of the 36:1 trigger wheel, when I receive it.

Wow, that's a lovely looking Rolla you have there.  I love it's stance, & the wheels.  What other mods have you done to it ?  Is the engine stock ?

You might be interested in the COP setup, I have made for my 4K/5K, which should hook up to the Speeduino easily, either sequentially, or wasted spark, paralleling them up in pairs.

655395571_2017-09-1813_43_48.thumb.jpg.114689285e45c6b83d1350d1c29c46c6.jpg

1644813406_2017-09-1813_42_37.thumb.jpg.966b85e5603071f756b0a55bd843a398.jpg

One of the usual problems with these long stemmed COPs, is that they get very hot; being basically inside the head. With my arrangement, & all that air passing around them, that  won't be an issue for me.

Cheers Banjo

Edited by Banjo

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Hi Darren,

                 Yeah lots of fun coming up.  The COPS are a natural progression of experimenting with different fuel & ignition alternatives, for our K series engines.  I have previously had a 4K engine running in waste spark mode, using a couple of  Commodore coils with two HV spark plug connections. 

DSC01078.JPG.f85b01a5b7a18dfed3d5a03d7506ec6d.JPG

The only problem with these; are that the spark travels/jumps in one direction, in one spark plug, & in the opposite direction on the other.  That then requires expensive platinum plugs.  The beauty of the COPs is, that each COP has it's own ignitor on board, & the input trigger signal is low voltage.   Just parallel two COPS together, & they then fire in unison (waste spark) with the spark jumping the gap in the same/right direction.

The Waste Spark system, also employs a simple triggering system, so you don't need to have a synchronising camshaft pulse, at all.  Just awaiting the toothed wheel to arrive in the post, to start experimenting, with the Speeduino, which has been running perfectly, non stop, on the bench, for the last four (4) days. 

Cheers  Banjo

Edited by Banjo

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