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So Who is Going to do the First KE Rolla EV Conversion ?


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Here's an interesting topic today, in the press, with a lot of detail: & very much Australian.

EV Conversions in Australia.

A very good read !

So in this piece, there is mention of current EV conversions to VDubs (Beatles), Dato utes, Range Rovers, Commodores, & even a DeLorean, but no mention of a Corolla !

image.png.925cca1301876fe4026ddc811b431aae.png

Has anyone on here ever considered this, or looked into the requirements.

Within a couple of months, we'll be just 10 years from the Olympics in Brisbane. Before that date (say 2030)  most manufacturers will have gone EV, eg:  Volvo.

I have noted in the USA, that there is frantic bidding on every "written off" Tesla; just to get hold of the drive chain; presumably for conversions.

Hope this topic gets some comments. 

Maybe Josh & Keith can start a whole new business venture in Blayney ?

P.S.   Then, I just might start off "small", & VE my ride on lawnmower/tractor, like this guy.

https://youtu.be/FLu1UOr9RSs 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

 

Edited by Banjo
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Haha!  Of course I've looked at it, but the weight of a Tesla Model3 is over 2.1tons, and for a 4-door sports sedan that's bit extreme!

Throw out the 4AGE and put in an electric engine..  sure....    then add 500Kg of batteries somewhere where they won't ruin the handling!

At least Blaney is under 100km/day, making the trip to the farm at 500Km plus would be tricky!

I'm a  firm believer that they will never replace petrol cars with electric cars unless batteries store 5times the power they do now, and we completely replace the National Grid, so Corollas are pretty safe as they are.

 

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I reckon the battery issue is the problem, but doubtless one Keith could manage.

Had a bloke rock up in his lime green Tesla last week to pickup some old C40 solexes.  Was planning to replace the SU's he had on his Datsun Fairlady.  Was telling me the tesla has a power to weight ratio that's better than a bathurst supercar thing.  

But which does he prefer to drive?  The datsun of course.

Edited by parrot
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The trouble with electric is they have max torque at zero rpm, and it falls off from there. The Tesla model S develops it all from 2000-3000 like a Falcon rocket going straight up, then it levels off until 5000, then declines to 12000. So they always talk about zero to blah blah because that's where they are really fast, and around town that's what most the driving is.

So you'll never beat them in traffic light drags, but going from 80 to 130 repeatedly in the mountains won't be so impressive.  I hacked this image to move the graphs back to the same point at 80kph. Under that the Tesla is quicker, end of story. Above that the Corvette will overtake a Model S and walk away, but the Tesla is still pretty damm impressive, an M3 won't catch it in the mountains.

I think I'd find them too quiet to be any fun, I love that acceleration roar, but I'm sure I'll never find out!

Race 80-180.jpg

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Just got to remember we are in the very early stages of elec cars. maybe 10-15 years or so of proper consumer level aimed development. Petrol car was still a bit shit in 1904....

i like petrol cars as much as the next petrol head but i am very excited to see what happens with electric. I was reading a review that was comparing the audi rs6 petrol car to the uber electric audi e-tron (basically audi's version of the Porsche taycan). and whilst the RS6 was good the comments were that it felt like a dinosaur compared to the e-tron. 

Main issue that really needs to be solved is the weight of the batteries. But i'm sure over time they will sort it out. tesla model 3 is apparently 1600-1800kg. Thats not far off a V8 commodore. But the Honda E is  1500kg, which is ~200-300kg heavier than a petrol car of the same size. not quite there yet on weight in the small car sector. 

I did watch a really good review of the plug in hybrid version of the new Defender. Thats an interesting proposition. as weight doesnt really matter as its a giant 4wd not a sports car, but with ~30km of battery range thats enough to putt about in the city being all green and all (probably cover most peoples daily short trips - school - shops etc). and then you have the petrol engine for the long journeys where the high speed efficiency of the petrol can be taken advantage of, and if you have a defender presumably you will be doing long trips.  "The late brake show" Youtube channel is the review i'm referencing, worth a look if interested. 

In regards to conversions, this guy is relatively close to me and ive seen his suzuki swift development car around a few times. pretty neat that people are having a go. 

https://www.ozdiyelectricvehicles.com/

Edited by ke70dave
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Hi Dave,

              That's a good site, & right here in Qld.

I came across this commentary the other day, which Altezzaclub, will be in full agreement with, I'm sure.

https://thenextweb.com/news/are-classic-cars-still-classic-if-converted-evs-yes-they-are

I agree with you Dave, that there is always resistance when major events/things, that change in the world.  Remember the history of when the world went from horses to cars.  These new "fangled things", were so dangerous that the authorities of the day, forced each car to have a man walking in front of it, carrying a "red" flag.  It's only early days, as yet, & the next 10 years will reveal lots & lots of changes.

For people like Altezzaclub & Banjo, who love the sound of all that air rushing in & out of an engine; someone will produce a little box you attach under your dash, that emits those long loved engine sounds, in complete synchronization with the position of your right foot, on the "speed regulator pedal".

I do however, believe that the long distances we travel between towns in regional Australia, will mean that fuel powered cars & trucks will be around for many years to come.  Every little town has a petrol station.  Under that big concrete apron is a very large tank, which is just a a very big existing "battery of power", waiting to be used.  Difference is, I pull in; fill up, & I'm off in 5 mins. 

Just before this bloody pandemic, I delivered a car to my son in Canberra.  I drove from Brisbane to Canberra in the one day, including a forced stop in Grafton, to get a flat tyre repaired (1.5 hour).  If I had been in an electric car, having to stop every few hours for a charge, I'm sure it would have been after midnight, before I arrived.

I believe there are already people working on this problem.  We all used to take our barbi gas bottles to BCF or Bunnings to get them filled.  Now you just call in at the servo, & swap it", when you fill up the petrol tank.

Batteries will become so light & advanced eventually, that we'll probably just do the same with cars. Swap the battery.  I seem to remember early days in Brisbane, when I think there were electric buses; & the battery was pulled along behind in a trailer.  The bus just called into the depot; & they hooked on another fully charged trailer.  Like this . . .

image.png.f452a8db3c5315fdb7b8965eae20f373.png

We are definitely in a period of "a time of change".  There are those that embrace it; & those that take a little longer. 

Anyway, electric vehicles are not that new.

image.png.3e83695467f845c5cfb65563e81efe8e.png

Circa  1904

 

Cheers Banjo 

 

 

  

Edited by Banjo
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If you have a look at some of the fast charging capabilities i'm not convinced its as big of an issue as it used to be for the majority of peoples uses. That porsche taycan can from from 5% to 80% in about 25mins (on the uber charger, much less on your standard home charger). its certainly not 5mins like a petrol car though ill give you that, but if stop for a coffee and a stretch of the legs then 30mins isnt too rediculous given where we are in the electric technology time line (at the beginning). porshe also has close to 400km range which is getting up there. Tesla is more range again. And it was only a couple of years ago that it was hours to charge with ~200km range,

We've Come a long way in a short period of time. You do need the infrastructure ill give you that, and like most things we are miles behind. but just look at the UK, many options to charge on the go. They have their issues of course (different plugs, different speeds, payment options etc), but its still early days. Give it another 10 years, and we might be down to 15 mins of charge time with double the range. Cars were significantly better by 1915 than 1904:P 

I'm kind of annoyed how little emphasis there is on hybrid cars in AUS (and in general really). With our driving lifestyles in this large county i think its the perfect solution in this transition period. Elec around town for the short trips and petrol for the long ones. But greenies just see "petrol bad, electricity good"....although in saying that i do see quite a few hybrid corollas and rav 4s around - maybe they are more popular than i think. 

In saying all of this, I think the jury is still out on whether elec cars are actually any better than petrol ones on full life cycle analysis. But hey, that argument will never be settled 😉 At the very least local emissions that people breath are better, which is good for my asthma. 

 

 

 

Edited by ke70dave
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6 hours ago, Banjo said:

I believe there are already people working on this problem.  We all used to take our barbi gas bottles to BCF or Bunnings to get them filled.  Now you just call in at the servo, & swap it", when you fill up the petrol tank.

Batteries will become so light & advanced eventually, that we'll probably just do the same with cars. Swap the battery.  I seem to remember early days in Brisbane, when I think there were electric buses; & the battery was pulled along behind in a trailer.  The bus just called into the depot; & they hooked on another fully charged trailer.  Like this . . . 

Instead of pulling up to a bowser you'd park over a hatch in the ground, old battery pack gets removed and new battery pack gets installed (probably with some kind of hotel power lead so nothing cuts out), all in a matter of minutes.  The old pack then gets moved to a charging rack underground in the servo (where the tanks used to be, also nice and cool down there which will help with bulk charging).

 

The hard bit is getting manufacturers to agree to an industry standard (or at least a standard range) so you don't have to accommodate 50 million different combinations of battery and interface.  That, and getting users and rechargers to agree on ownership and liability of the batteries themselves (kinda like the gas bottles), separate from the car itself.

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Interesting column on this subject on the ABC website today, looking from it as "a consumer".

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-21/what-is-stopping-australians-buying-electric-cars/100524242

I occasionally travel to Canberra on business, & thought a good way to get some miles under the belt, in an EV car, would be to maybe hire one, having never driven one.  I just checked the net to see if may car hire companies in Australia, are hiring EVs.  Not many, it seems, but I  did notice that Hertz are hiring the Tesla 3. I would be interested if anyone else on Rollaclub; has tried an EV car, either by hiring it, or a friend's car; & what your first impressions were.

After reading that article today, with mention of "range anxiety", I could see how that could become very real.  I've always loved driving in the outback, & in my younger days, that's where every holiday was spent.

In a petrol car, you always carry one or two full jerry cans in the boot, to extend your range.  You can't carry a couple of spare batteries !

The scenario, which always worried me back then, was getting lost or taking the wrong turn, because of poor or no sign posting.  Driving on an outback road with few if any other road users, & not knowing how far to the next habitation, always created anxiety.

I really think the hybrid solution is an idea solution short term for Australian drivers, until the EV car market gets more established, unless you are a pure "city only" driver. I recently read the detailed description of the Toyota hybrid arrangement, & it sounds brilliant.

Only issue for me, is they are very expensive, & very complicated, so support Australia wide may be an issue.  I've only had to call a tilt truck once in my life, but these days it is so common, as the NRMA, or RACQ roadside assist man, can do little to get you going again, unless it's something fairly simple.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

 

  

Edited by Banjo
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Well,you can work this out Banjo-

Tesla use a range of batteries from 60KW.hr to 100KW.hr, so lets take a 90KW.hr. That's apparently 410amp.hrs at 375volts.

Our conversion batteries are 180amp.hr at 3.2volts, so we'd need about 120 of them in series to get 375volts. That would still be 180AH, so to boost capacity we'd need twice as many to get 360AH.

240 conversion batteries would weigh 670kg, a good comparison to the 2.2ton Tesla with 550kg of battery.

They would take up 0.9 of a cubic metre, each battery is about 300x70x180mm, tall, skinny and average long.  Say 30 lying down under the parcel shelf in the boot, 170kg, and another 30 in the engine bay to balance with 170kg in the nose, leaving 180 to put where the back seat was!

Now you have a 2-seat KE70 (that's fine!) which weighs about 1.6tons and does 1-100kph in a few seconds!

..and a mortgage for the 240x$260..   um, $62400 cost of the batteries!

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That's quite interesting. like most things they can be "recycled" but the real challenge is weather recycling them is economically viable. Dont we currently have isuses recycling aluminium cans? (china wont take them anymore?) i dont have much confidence we will be recycling batteries. 

I have always been told to never leave a charging battery unattended, dad was always stickler for that. So i always charge my batteries while i am around. and even if i have to work in the yard etc i put the charger and battery in the centre of my concrete floor. This all came to fruition a few years ago when a LiPo drone battery i had exploded into a ball of smoke while on charge. luckily it was fairly Isloated on a work bench. made a hell of a mess, and burnt the bench a bit. 

And yet, we now have people with ~75kw (!!) batteries charging while they sleep above them. I know they have thermal cut outs etc, but still a fairly significant risk with a gnarly consequence. petrol is flamable as well of course, but its fairly inert when in a sealed tank and you aren't doing anything to it. 

 

 

 

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Aluminium is the only household product worth recycling, it takes a lot of electricity to turn bauxite into metal so once you have it you make sure it stays as a metal.  Copper would be the next, lead, and the contents of the catalytic converters.  Steel is OK in bulk, and then the rest of the cardboard, plastics etc only exist because of public money subsidies.  The first part of the Save the Planet with taxpayer money that is still going on in Glasgow.

I can't see much advantage is hammering those batteries to bits unless some components are water soluble. You end up with such a mess it makes separating compounds more difficult. You could see the typical mess on the floor in one photo, so I expect they're not flammable when powdered!

I don't know what happens to the crushed cars from the wrecker, they don't strip anything so to get the organics out you would need to hammer-mill the entire car and burn the result.  That would get rid of the cardboard, the paint, the grease/oil & the plastics, leaving copper wires, aluminium components and steel as pieces all mixed together. The wrecker said after 2007 the bottom dropped out and the Chinese just emptied the ships straight into the harbour to get them moving again. Massive pollution either way, but like any of the third world, someone got paid a lot of cash to ruin an environment he didn't care about.

Yeah, I wouldn't sleep above an electric car on charge..  just look at the airliners with the batteries in the tail to replace the APU.

 

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Aussies to the rescue !   Read about these guys in our local Jimboomba Times just today, & found it on the net.   Love the bit about building it in their hotel room in the UK, & the cleaner seeing it, & thought it was a bomb.  Good on ya aussies !

Quote

"We actually had to build a PowerWell over in the UK because we couldn't take one on the plane with us," Mr Clair said.

"I left it in the hotel room and the cleaner thought it was a bomb.

"They evacuated 140 rooms in the hotel and set-up a 4-kilometre radius around the building.

"But we spoke to the police after it all and they actually congratulated us on the work that we were doing."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-06/qld-kingston-ewaste-global-energy-poverty-indonesia-powerwells/13206106

Cheers Banjo

Edited by Banjo
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  • 4 weeks later...

The scariest article you will read today !

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-11-22/petrol-stations-can-they-survive-electric-car-uptake/100627312

I went outside after breakfast to put the rubbish out. My little KE30 2 door coupe was "whippering" in the driveway.  I asked "Buzzy" what was the matter.  She stated "I obviously hadn't read the ABC website news feed today". (She is fitted with a 4G internet dongle, so spends her time while "idling"; GOOGLING)

There are some difficult conversations, we will have to share, when next I wash her, no doubt !

Cheers Banjo

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